Give IPCs a welder and cable coil in their emergency box instead of oxygen tank

[CPTCoffee]

It's their version of an oxygen tank & auto-ejector. I know it's not hard to grab one from cargo, but sometimes I have to hit the ground running. When I'm doing engineering I always have to dump this internals box. No reason for me to have it. 

 

**EDIT**

My general concern is that spawning in with an oxygen tank and pen is only useful for certain races.  IPCs don't have an oh shit emergency tool yet. 

Getting rid of the items inside the emergency box for IPCs would be great. Replacing it with an item that would save an IPC from crit would be even better. I was saying welder/cable coil because that's really the only thing that can heal IPCs apart from nanopaste. If someone would be so generous as to code and make their own version of an epipen for an IPC that would be greatly appreciated because the general concern is that IPCs spawning in with cable coil/welder could be used for nefarious purposes. 

 

To sum it up: I suggest that IPCs get their own version of an emergency autoinjector that would be only useful to IPCs to save themselves from crit. Cable coil/welder was suggested because no such item exists yet. If it can't be done at least get rid of of the items in the emergency box that is useless to IPCs.

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by CPTCoffee

[Shadeykins]

This has been beaten down about 7-8 times.

The reason being that more or less anything that impacts round balance is a no-no for roundspawn (even fluff). Welders/cables can be used for a lot more than just healing.

Would probably have more traction if it was something that could only be used to fix IPCs in limited circumstances. (Epi-pens are only useful if you're literally dying, for instance).

[CPTCoffee]

Nanite paste then? Or just an empty box. No internals. Just seems silly that an IPC would have that lying around. 

[TrainTN]

7 hours ago, Shadeykins said:

This has been beaten down about 7-8 times.

The reason being that more or less anything that impacts round balance is a no-no for roundspawn (even fluff). Welders/cables can be used for a lot more than just healing.

Would probably have more traction if it was something that could only be used to fix IPCs in limited circumstances. (Epi-pens are only useful if you're literally dying, for instance).

Would not even an emergency welding tool be acceptable? I don't know if its stats would be different, but I am assuming it's less dangerous than a regular welding tool. Maybe some kind of special "safety welder" that has a low fuel capacity, can't be used for construction/deconstruction, and does insignificant damage would be fine. I would imagine that'd what you would give an IPC anyway, a tool that they cannot really hurt themselves or others with since its purpose would be purely healing themselves.

Or just give them a single pack of nanite paste, as suggested.

[Rumiluntti]

Why would they need to have even easier time healing themselves?
Carbons get something to survive in critical condition, a thing that IPC don't give a shit about in the first place

[BottomQuark]

I might be mistaken but welding tools contains:

• Upgraded Welding Tool (hacked YouTool machine) -100units of fuel
• Industrial Welding Tool (fire lockers) - 40u
• Welding Tool (YouTool) - 20u
• Emergency Welding Tool-10u

Also, normal welding tool is not enough to fix every part of the IPC body, so emergency welding tool would fix almost nothing.
Easier way is to just go to R&D and ask for Experimental Welding Tool that contains 20u but recharges own it's own.
I don't think IPCs need to start with welding tool, but I agree that IPCs should not start the round with epi-pen and internals.

I indeed like the idea of "Safety Welding tool" without option to harm others, or like take the whole fuel with first attack so it's useless as weapon later.

[davidchan]

Given that I've OD'd and killed a person using epipens, the meme of the box not having balance effecting items is utterly false. And don't forget back before goofchem, the injector had 10u of tricord in it, ~48 healing for all 4 categories. Theorycraft it could heal a person from near death to living (48 burn/tox/brute and hard crit suffocation) but in reality it could reverse 2 laser shots, 2 toolboxings or some nasty spider bites.

An emergency welder and 5-10 lengths of cable coil wouldn't affect the balance much as at all, or just snowflake a special stack of Nanopaste to target the entire body and heal 10-20 units before being used. (I oppose the regular nanopaste option because it could be used to jumpstart RnD)

 

41 minutes ago, BottomQuark said:

I indeed like the idea of "Safety Welding tool" without option to harm others, or like take the whole fuel with first attack so it's useless as weapon later.

Why bother making it safe? The O2 etanks in the kit certainly aren't.

Edited January 16, 2018 by davidchan

[Jountax]

If this happens I would love if slimes got terperone instead of internals.

Anyway, I've always found it silly that species that the box items are useless for still spawn with the box items.

[davidchan]

Other thoughts on this would be for IPCs to get a can of compressed/chilled air that had one use, if used on an IPC they get 5-10 seconds of low pressure resistance so they can run through breaches to safety. If used on an organic it just does a few burn damage (less than a punch) and is wasted.

Either that or we go the bay/bestrp route where IPCs are technically pressure proof but take heat damage in a vacuum cause they are air cooled, requiring a special cooling suit or internals on to avoid overheating

[Ralta]

I just imagine it as NT handing out basic boxes of stuff to every crew member and not really going beyond that. Trying to prevent suffocation only and help people stay out of crit until medical personnel arrive on the scene.

Therefore, the only change I'd personally be willing to accept is swapping out the autoinjector to something relevant for species which have no use for epinephrine. Where suffocation is a non-issue for Plasmamen and Vox for example, the epi-pen remains useful. In the case of IPCs, neither the injector nor the oxygen are of any use outside of assisting another crew member.

That said, I cannot think of any appropriate item currently in existence which would be a fair and balanced exchange. Welders, while common, have a lot of uses outside of IPC repairs. Same goes for Cable Coil. Nanopaste is rare (in terms of default placement), and rightfully so. Creating a new item to 'stabilise' a limb perhaps might be good, but I'm also not sure that this is such a big issue that it requires redressing with the addition of an entirely new item...

[ZN23X]

I'm okay with them not starting with either. Both are easily obtained if you need em. Having both would pretty much be the equivalent of organics starting with a white medkit

[Shadeykins]

On 1/16/2018 at 3:07 AM, davidchan said:

Given that I've OD'd and killed a person using epipens, the meme of the box not having balance effecting items is utterly false. And don't forget back before goofchem, the injector had 10u of tricord in it, ~48 healing for all 4 categories. Theorycraft it could heal a person from near death to living (48 burn/tox/brute and hard crit suffocation) but in reality it could reverse 2 laser shots, 2 toolboxings or some nasty spider bites.

An emergency welder and 5-10 lengths of cable coil wouldn't affect the balance much as at all, or just snowflake a special stack of Nanopaste to target the entire body and heal 10-20 units before being used. (I oppose the regular nanopaste option because it could be used to jumpstart RnD)

 

Why bother making it safe? The O2 etanks in the kit certainly aren't.

Killing someone with epi-pens takes at least 3-4 pens worth of epinephrine.

You definitely don't spawn with anywhere near enough to harm someone.

[Calecute]

I'm not sure the balance question is just about healing, there's a limited access to tools in general. 

[CPTCoffee]

1 minute ago, Calecute said:

I'm not sure the balance question is just about healing, there's a limited access to tools in general. 

My general concern is that spawning in with an oxygen tank and pen is only useful for certain races.  IPCs don't have an oh shit emergency tool yet. 

Getting rid of the items inside the emergency box for IPCs would be great. Replacing it with an item that would save an IPC from crit would be even better. I was saying welder/cable coil because that's really the only thing that can heal IPCs apart from nanopaste. If someone would be so generous as to code and make their own version of an epipen for an IPC that would be greatly appreciated because the general concern is that IPCs spawning in with cable coil/welder could be used for nefarious purposes. 

[Ralta]

On 19/01/2018 at 7:53 PM, CPTCoffee said:

My general concern is that spawning in with an oxygen tank and pen is only useful for certain races.  IPCs don't have an oh shit emergency tool yet. 

Getting rid of the items inside the emergency box for IPCs would be great. Replacing it with an item that would save an IPC from crit would be even better. I was saying welder/cable coil because that's really the only thing that can heal IPCs apart from nanopaste. If someone would be so generous as to code and make their own version of an epipen for an IPC that would be greatly appreciated because the general concern is that IPCs spawning in with cable coil/welder could be used for nefarious purposes. 

Although I've given my opinion on this already, I had a chat with a non-SS13 buddy of mine about this. He suggested something like this:
 

Quote

 

System Recalibration -- Intelligent system bus controllers reroutes control signals around existing damage to restore critical system functionality.

Basically, software-defined circuits that will redefine paths when damage takes place.

The idea is that it isn't that the robot is repaired, it's just... improvising.

Get it out of immediate danger, but not a long term fix.

And you could make the Recalibration a limited thing, right? Because you can't just keep rerouting if nothing is connected anymore.

Like I assume that the autoinjectors and shit are limited resources.

 

Whether or not this might be an injectable or an ability like their charge implant I don't know (the latter would likely have balance issues) but from a lore perspective, I thought this fit rather well.

[Fox McCloud]

Quote

And don't forget back before goofchem, the injector had 10u of tricord in it, ~48 healing for all 4 categories.

 

Flat out wrong.

 

It had Inaprovaline in it, which prevents suffocation damage while in crit, and that's literally it.

 

Quote

Given that I've OD'd and killed a person using epipensp

Extremely dubious. On average, there's a ~9.5% chance for them to take, on average, 1.5 tox every 2 seconds. Even if you injected someone with 10 of these, they're still only going take ~57 Tox damage....over the next 800 seconds.

If they were "Killed" by "ODing on epi", they were already dead anyway or were being damaged by some other source; yeah, sure, it may have contributed to it, to a degree, but even in the extreme, it's just going to be an annoyance; not something life-threatening "oh my gosh, no counter" tactic.

 

Compare this with a welder which does 15 burn damage, up front, in an instant that can be re-applied every 0.8 seconds; You get 10 welds with a mini for a total of 150 damage (enough to hard crit!)

This isn't even delving into the non-medical benefits of starting with a welding tool.

You start with epi you can sometimes save a life with it (or, rarely, your own). That's it.

 

A welding tool can take down walls, seal doors, seal lockers, and act as one of the highest damage non-traitor weapons in the game.

We've shot this down before, because have to consider non-proximate uses of the welding tool in addition to emergent behavior from giving it to IPC players (and just overall fairness), and we believe the negatives outweigh the positives. We don't just walk around thinking "how else can we screw over IPCs today".

Edited February 5, 2018 by Fox McCloud

[EvadableMoxie]

The purpose of Epi-pens is to stabilize someone long enough to get them medical treatment. The purpose of welders and cable coils for IPCs is to fix damage. They aren't analogs in any way, they are entirely different. It would be better to compare welders and cable coil to brute and burn patches.

That said, all of this stuff is rather easily obtained so I don't see the big deal either way.  I pretty much always carry a welder and cable coil and I'm not even an IPC, I can't imagine why an IPC wouldn't. You'd have to find an extremely unreasonable CT or QM who wouldn't print those for an IPC.