Admin Speculation and Judgement

[DeeJayh]

Conflict: Job Banned: 2/19
IC: Vaughn
(I see now that this is probably the better place for this.)

Whichever admin it was that banned me did so on purely circumstantial evidence and with a ton of speculation as to what actually transpired. The admin lied several times during our conversation, saying people who were there were dead, (easily confirmed as false by chat logs, I'm sure you have those), saying that I fed the poison to someone and then I didn't feed the poison to someone but somehow still managed to give it to them. Saying that there was no other chemist when there, in fact, was another chemist... Speculating that no other person with access to the ton of chem mixers across the medical and science stations mattered because that person wasn't in those areas (as if someone else couldn't have brought it from those areas and put it here). Not taking into consideration that almost every basic and advanced medical treatment/chemical compound known to the game was inside that fridge and I made 90% of it. So, of course, the obvious assumption should be that I wasted my time figuring out how to mix up poison and try to kill someone INSIDE OF THE MEDICAL BAY where they could INSTANTLY be revived and squeal on me... 

The list goes on, and on, and on.... If this was a court case, it would be dismissed before the opening statement could be made. Seeing as it's not a court case, I suggest admins be educated that it's not okay to lie over and over, then draw conclusions with zero evidence that anything actually happened just because they feel the need to have someone to pin it on, not to mention hand out as harsh a punishment as possible, excluding a full-ban.

Thanks for your time.

[Streaky Haddock]

@Heroo2012 was the banning admin. The Bans applied Chemist, CMO, Scientist and RD. The ban reason given was: "Placing cyanide inside the chemical vendor when a patient was seeking for sugar. Check notes for attached images, current time 0.23 +2GMT for logs and PM's. After questioning, denied any wrongdoings. Appeal on our forums."

Your IC name was Vaughn Phillips. I'm not handling this complaint as I'm not a headmin, but I am filling in some missing information because I just can't help myself.

[DeeJayh]

1 minute ago, Streaky Haddock said:

@Heroo2012 was the banning admin. The Bans applied Chemist, CMO, Scientist and RD. The ban reason given was: "Placing cyanide inside the chemical vendor when a patient was seeking for sugar. Check notes for attached images, current time 0.23 +2GMT for logs and PM's. After questioning, denied any wrongdoings. Appeal on our forums."

Your IC name was Vaughn Phillips. I'm not handling this complaint as I'm not a headmin, but I am filling in some missing information because I just can't help myself.

No I certainly appreciate it. I was pretty flustered and didn't bother grabbing that information. Thank you, Streaky!

[necaladun]

Firstly - no, this isn't a court case. We don't have the same standards of proof, or consequences such as jail terms, so that's completely irrelevant. 

Secondly, the proof I have been supplied shows you placing  2 pills labelled "sugar" in the vendor, someone taking 2 out, eating them, and getting 100u of cyanide in them just after eating them. This is not speculation. This is sufficient proof to me. I'm sure even in a court of law, such pictures and medical evidence etc would also be sufficient. 

The only wrongdoing I see here is that you were not permabanned, and just jobbanned. You were lucky there, most other admins would not be so merciful. 

 

[DeeJayh]

3 hours ago, necaladun said:

the proof I have been supplied shows you placing  2 pills labelled "sugar" in the vendor, someone taking 2 out, eating them, and getting 100u of cyanide in them just after eating them.

I'm still waiting to see this proof. Where are these "pictures"? How does the fact that he was sick on cyanide point directly to me? When I came back there were STILL pills labelled sugar in the chem station. Same color, same ones that I made. Pretty sure I ate one and threw the other into the trash chute. I didn't get cyanide poisoning. So why did he? What about all the other chems that were in that fridge from me?

Charcoal, Cryoxadone, Mannitol, Salbutamol, Saline-Glucose Solution, Silver, Sulfadiazine, Styptic Powder, Synthflesh, Atropine, Calomel, Mutadone, Perfluorodecalin, Salicyclic Acid, ETC ETC ETC

Did I make all of those because I had the mindset of a killer or a sociopath? Or because I was sitting there for hours doing my duty and being the best damn chemist I could be. I doubt I'd waste my time otherwise if I planned the play the role of an Antag without actually being one. I've been playing neatly by-the-book for several days on this server. I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong, but you are wrong. Ask some of the other people I've played with how I handle myself on the Cyberiad. Let go of your pride for 2 minutes and look at this and see that there's a possibility I did NOT intentionally poison this man with cyanide. I don't even care to argue about it anymore. There's holes in this story, your admin lied to me several times while interrogating me, trying to fish for a confession, because he didn't have his facts straight, and the punishment was handed out on circumstantial evidence. You want to play the good ol' boys club card and back him up? Fine, I don't care. Make it look as good as you want. As long as there's always that little seed of doubt, you'll know this wasn't justice. Like I said, I wasn't looking for an appeal, just had a shred of hope that maybe someone could see the obvious doubts in this case and talk about it to prevent it in the future. I'm done with it at this point, honestly. 

P.S.

Quote

Quite obviously all complaints must be polite.

But apparently the replies you give back must not, because everything you've said thus far has been nothing but catty replies to traduce my well thought-out and polite criticism.
"The only wrongdoing I see here is that you were not permabanned, and just jobbanned. "
"You can go to other servers if you wish, we don't mind. I see you're still playing on ours though."

Edited February 20, 2018 by DeeJayh

[necaladun]

3 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

I'm still waiting to see this proof. Where are these "pictures"?  How does the fact that he was sick on cyanide point directly to me?

 

That's what was provided, and why the admin asked you about it - a quite reasonable thing to do, and expected of an admin.  As I said, - The pictures I have been supplied shows you placing  2 pills labelled "sugar" in the vendor, someone taking 2 out, eating them, and getting 100u of cyanide in them just after eating them.

These "pictures" point directly to you because one would infer that you put the poison pills right in the vendor right before were taken out and eaten.

34 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

What about all the other chems that were in that fridge from me?

Charcoal, Cryoxadone, Mannitol, Salbutamol, Saline-Glucose Solution, Silver, Sulfadiazine, Styptic Powder, Synthflesh, Atropine, Calomel, Mutadone, Perfluorodecalin, Salicyclic Acid, ETC ETC ETC

I don't see why that matters?

7 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

Did I make all of those because I had the mindset of a killer or a sociopath?

No? That's insane, no one said that. I don't assume griefing in a game requires the mindset of a killer or a sociopath. This isn't reality, this isn't a court of law. You were banned because all signs point towards you being the one that did that.  The fact that earlier that day you had injected someone with cyanide in a syringe marked insulin, as well as said "I should have injected her with cyanide when I had the chance, I knew she was bad when she blew up the lab and lost her leg", shows that it's within the realm of possibility of something you'd do.

But doing that in a videogame doesn't make  you a sociopath or killer.

8 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

I've been playing neatly by-the-book for several days on this server.

2 is not generally "several"

9 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

there's a possibility I did NOT intentionally poison this man with cyanide.

Sure. We don't need 100% proof. On the balance of probability, I'm convinced you did so.

10 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

I don't even care to argue about it anymore.

....

10 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

There's holes in this story, your admin lied to me several times while interrogating me, trying to fish for a confession, because he didn't have his facts straight, and the punishment was handed out on circumstantial evidence.

I don't see any evidence of lies? Snow appeared dead to the admin, hence them saying so. 

38 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

You want to play the good ol' boys club card and back him up? Fine, I don't care. Make it look as good as you want. As long as there's always that little seed of doubt, you'll know this wasn't justice. Like I said, I wasn't looking for an appeal, just had a shred of hope that maybe someone could see the obvious doubts in this case and talk about it to prevent it in the future. I'm done with it at this point, honestly. 

I'm "backing him up" because, from what I see, he appears to be correct. This isn't about "justice", you seem very obsessed with treating this like a court case - even accusing the admin in question of "I'm thinking IRL you used to be a cop or a detective, because this is exactly what they do when they have no evidence."....which shows me exactly why Heroo2012 had issue with you, as your attitude towards being questioned was frankly horrid.

We don't need 100% certain iron-clad evidence to issue a ban here, we don't even need it to be beyond reasonable doubt. Balance of probability is fine for me.

40 minutes ago, DeeJayh said:

Quote

Quite obviously all complaints must be polite.

But apparently the replies you give back must not, because everything you've said thus far has been nothing but catty replies to traduce my well thought-out and polite criticism.
"The only wrongdoing I see here is that you were not permabanned, and just jobbanned. "
"You can go to other servers if you wish, we don't mind. I see you're still playing on ours though."

Your "well thought-out and polite criticism" is neither.

Considering how you spoke to Heroo2012, you are in fact lucky you weren't outright permabanned - many other admins would have for not just the poisoning, but for how you spoke to them over the course of it.

Your "threats" to go to other servers are laughable, especially when you have kept playing here, despite telling Heroo2012 that "I'm just not going to play this server anymore."

 

 

For the above reasons, this complaint is without merit.