Civilian "objectives"

[nickhoude21]

Let's be honest, without a fair amount of thought, there isn't a whole lot to do as a civilian besides wandering through maint hoping you find a cultist or gateway exploring. So something I think would make it more fun to play is sort of an objective that would work similar to the AI ion storm laws. It would basically just add something to their notes that they should do over the course of the round. This could include something like, "You are a very tall midget and must assert this to everyone", "You worship a rival god of the chaplain, spread word of the falseness of their god", "You must actively seek out and repeatedly hug/throw/scream at all [inset race, gender, department staff, etc. here]", or something else that just gives them something to do.

[ZN23X]

Part of what makes this game so unique is how player driven it is. You don't need objectives to hold your hand all the time.

As @Alexkar598 said, you literally just thought of multiple examples of "civilian objectices" As long as they are within the bounds of the rules, what exactly is stopping you from following one of those?

Also you shouldn't be wandering through maint either hunting or hoping to be converted by any type of antag...

Its securities job to hunt antags, and nobody is supposed to be getting intentionally converted...

Edited May 14, 2018 by ZN23X

[davidchan]

Having ones that actively encourage non-antagonist players to harass or instigate problems on the station? Not such a good idea. I think instead having minor, open ended objectives would be fine. 'Open a shop' 'Fix the old bar' 'Collect x items.',

My main stipulation in adding these, is that they should all require some level of crew interaction to fulfill. So, not maint diving scavenger hunts, but rather trading or stealing a fluff item from every major department.

@ZN23X@Alexkar598 I believe the main point of this topic is aimed at the fact that Civilian/Assistant jobs have little motivation to do anything, and usually break off into cliques or roam maint looking for things to do. Giving them non-antag related objectives might give these jobs and people some inspiration to do something to interact with the crew in a manner that isn't valid hunting or looting. Having 5 random Civs get an identical 'Throw a Party' objective might have a few of them realize others are throwing a party, and cause them to team up or even work against each other in attempts to have the better, bigger party. Objectives like these are meant to nudge people who might not be creative or otherwise motivated to find their own fun into do something that could be interesting for others to watch, interact with but not necissarily something that would put them at odds with Security (unless they chose to pursue their objective in the most greyshirt way.

[BottomQuark]

The question is: Is that really the thing that paradise needs? I mean, I get the problem, but it will not work, people will ignore it, or try to justify self-antagging. And if it will work, some assistants still will be greytiding. Assistants are supposed to learn and help, so:

What I'd love to see, is additional titles "Medbay assistant", "Engineering assistant", etc. That would give assistant department radio and BASIC access. Maybe that would make new people want to learn certain jobs for example by joining as "Security Assistant" and helping IAA/Lawyer handle prisonners imprisonment time etc.

Give them just basic access, so they have to get someone's more experienced help, if they are new, they won't know what to do anyway.

[ZN23X]

Youtube generation. Need someone to show me how to play games. Cannot use brain and think.

Yes I agree random non antagonistic objectives would be helpful for ludites who lack the creativity to do anything other than go "I have nothing to do, lets steal, disrupt, and destroy"

And yea as @BottomQuark said. There are already plenty of people who ignore "unimportant" in game mechanics. Prime example. Mass hallucinations. Most people ignore them. It would be a hell of alot more fun if everyone actually reacted to thier hallucinations, but most people don't. Station wide goals are another example. Engineering wanted more to do. Insert station wide goals. Within months people who play frequently already got bored of them and regularly ignore them. Same would happen with these. Tho admittedly not EVERYONE would ignore them.

I'm also underestimating the power of greentext.

"GUYS WE GREENTEXT FOR THROWING A PARTY! YAY US! HIGH FIVE!"

[BottomQuark]

1 hour ago, ZN23X said:

Station wide goals are another example. Engineering wanted more to do. Insert station wide goals. Within months people who play frequently already got bored of them and regularly ignore them. Same would happen with these.

I'll just say: As engineer main, I can confirm that. I already finished every station goal at least 2 times (( there are 3 )), and people like me don't even bother anymore. 
Right now 90% of station projects that get finished are made by new people in engineering.

In the defence of the idea: It's not the same thing really. CE/Captain/NT rep often force engineers to make that project. But if you get that mission-message, your own will would drive you to finish your mission, not someone else. And we all know, people don't like doing things that they are forced to do.

 

Also about youtube thing. Yes, people now before jumping into game most of the time check the game on YT, and what do they see? People ((that I will not mention by names)) that play on /tg/ station and greytide all the time, don't take me wrong it might be funny, but I don't think we want people that literally smash 100000 bottles on your head bcs they don't like you, then set you on fire.

 

PS: I still think we should have more station goals

[Coldflame]

unless the pool was unreasonably large all of the objectives would end up being done over and over

[tiredbum]

Goon does a great job with their objectives. One thing I hate more then anything when I troll these forums is that regulars comment that the SOP of a role/job is good enough and that nothing ever should ever be ever done to change that ever. I feel like they play in am insular bubble

[davidchan]

Station Goals were inherently flawed because they don't involve the station. DNA Vault comes the closest to being a crew wide objective, but still falls short as the bulk of the work is being done by the Botanist and Xenobiologist. Meteor Shield and BSA both can be accomplished by a competent engineering crew in the span of 30 minutes. Meteor Sats literally can be dragged to any old point in space, activated and have someone spam the computer to turn it on. Doesn't need power or babysitting. Even if an antag decides to sabotage it, why would they? They can't summon meteors to begin with and the shield doesn't inhibit the antag.

BSA, while slightly more interesting, is similarly woefully unchallenging with minimal interactions on the crew. Find a secluded 14x4 area or larger, plate it, wire an APC to it and set up the consoles and equipment. Done. Find a Random GPS and fire. Antags have a little bit fun they can have with this, but its still not overly interesting once set up and the crew has very little they can do with it or consequences of setting it up since few people have access to GPS anyways. The reality of the situation is that the BSA and MS could be incorporated into regular station rounds with minimal impact overall, as a meteor shield would be set up alongside the engine early on the BSA just added to what ever engineering only fort they decide to build.

In all cases, the hardest part about the crew objectives is just getting Cargo to order and deliver the crates, be it they not having the points or sending it to the wrong department for some silly reason. Or just refusing to approve an order they haven't seen before. Why CentCom directed goals aren't sent to the station for free, or automatically, is beyond me.

Proper station goals should be ones that require 10-20 people attempting to work in coordination. A fire at the kitten orphanage leaving cargo with a crate full of kittens needing foster care by the crew with green text points awarded by how many are alive at the end of the round, well fed and not feral or otherwise hostile due to bad care. Space Refugees (ghost roles) needing food, medical care and shelter while NT looks for some port to offload them at, some with ulterior motives and side-antag status. Intercepted Data files that require decryption and various puzzles that need to be solved. Experimental new systems installed ot the Cyberaid that require testing, repairs and improvements, or even NT in the midst of negotations with a 3rd party and using the Cyberaid to bank roll said negotiations with random demands cropping up every 15 minutes that could range from exporting X number of items, repairing a shuttle that docks at arrivals or helping cure or weaponize a virus sample being sent to the station.

[tiredbum]

https://wiki.ss13.co/Staff_Assistant

Assistant objectives for goon. It can't be that hard to make up something for paradise

[Shina]

I like the idea of additional non-antag objectives (more so if you can switch them on or off in preferences). Not only for bored assistants, instead also for any other job. Greentexting would be fun sometimes as someone who just does not antag for whatever reason. Sure, you can give yourself any challange with a bit of creativity, but there is a different thrill in having the game challenge you, as well.

[nickhoude21]

To clarify for some people, I'm not saying if there's nothing to do you should hop into maint and try to find an antag or go break shit. I am merely saying that for people who don't have as great creative thought process as others, it is difficult to find much to do as civilian/assistant. I think there should be a 'pool' that people can choose from or have randomly assigned to them. This pool could be added to entirely by people who have found things to do or solely by admins, so long as they do not break server rules. It would make the game easier to get through for those who can't think well, and give people who are new to the game things to do while the learn the mechanics of the game. 

[R1f73r]

Well Oracle has the "Anti-Greytide Goals" and they work rather well. That could be something we could try to implement.

[Kyet]

4 hours ago, R1f73r said:

Well Oracle has the "Anti-Greytide Goals" and they work rather well. That could be something we could try to implement.

For the benefit of those of us who don't play on Oracle, could you please explain what these are / how they work?

[R1f73r]

1 minute ago, tzo said:

For the benefit of those of us who don't play on Oracle, could you please explain what these are / how they work?

Sure! At the start of each round on Oracle, if you're not an antag, you are elligble to be given an "anti Greytide" goal. which is usually just your job, but in a quantifiable manner. IE for roboticists it's make a certain amount of borgs or mechs are around at the end of a round. Or for miners to have a certain amount of mining points at the end of the round. Just stuff that encourages to do their job, is optional, and provides them with "muh greentext!"

[Savinien Brassheart]

4 hours ago, R1f73r said:

Well Oracle has the "Anti-Greytide Goals" and they work rather well. That could be something we could try to implement.

To be fair science on paradise kinda already has these goals. Roboticists are expected to build one cyborg and one ripley/firefighter while scientists are expected to do RnD and ship disks back. But I do like the idea of giving other jobs their own goals as well, like say the chef have to make 10 cakes and 10 pizzas. Botany having to grow Deathnettles. Chemists in medbay needing to keep the fridge stock with 100 units worth of synthflesh. Or even just the bartender having to successfully create certain mixed drinks.

[MamaFarthole]

5 hours ago, R1f73r said:

Well Oracle has the "Anti-Greytide Goals" and they work rather well. That could be something we could try to implement.

I was going to comment on this! They've also implemented "extra" objectives for the staff on the Station. Do you think that would be positive too?

[Biffthegreat]

Sad to see this divide into two camps: "Do it yourself" VS "Put it as literal character objectives"

 

Surely there is a compromise?

 

Perhaps this could be an opportunity for the HoP?

 

If the Civilian or Assistant is not able to think of their own task the HoP should assign something to them.

 

Perhaps there could be a list of tasks (a book even) in the HoP office with tasks to do.

(I am here inspired by my workplace which has a "to-do-list-book")

 

If there was a book in HoP office assistants/civilians/buisnessmen could ask the Hop for a task.

OR better yet - a vacancies waiting room (that useless one above HoP) with books or leaflets on various kinds of tasks available.

 

Example tasks could include:

 

Repair the old bar

Provide the Chef with a Sushi Aquarium

Repair the Diner

Set up your own shop filtering disposal-ed rubbish and re-selling it

Build a performance area / boxing ring in the bar

Work as a fire warden and ensure all extinguishers are in place

Start a DnD group

Start a cards group

Work as a medbay porter removing SSD characters and keeping the place tidy

Visit prisoners and tell them about life on the outside to help their rehabilitation

Open a private surgery in the abandoned surgery

Build a lounge at escape for departing crew and stock it with drinks

Assist the chef in keeping the kitchen clean

Build a zoo with monkeys, wolps and the odd vox at escape

Help the kitchen by using the food cart to deliver snacks across the station

Help the chaplain by ensuring every department and especially every prison cell has a Bible/Holy Text

Organize a blood donation drive for charity (medbay)

 

etc etc.

 

This would mean 

1 - Tasks would be available to those who are not creative or who might just not think of something (lets be honest, sometimes we don't feel too creative)

2 - HoP could be inventive in assigning non-critical tasks

 

And it does nothing for those who:

3 - come up with their own tasks - Just ask the HoP (if needed) for any (non ridiculous) access

 

As an added bonus (for tator tots)

4 - This would allow RP ways of completing tator objectives. Chef-killing Sushi-suppliers. Blood-driving vampires. Cmo mugging hospital porters. And so on.

 

And a double bonus:

5 - It would allow those who suggest new roles to "try it out".

Edited May 16, 2018 by Biffthegreat