Admin Complaint - spacemanspark

[MamaFarthole]

Admin Key: spacemanspark

Your Discord name: farthole #7075

Complaint: Hello all! Before I start this "complaint" as it were, I'd just like to point out that this isn't wholly a criticism of Spark's decisions and more of a way to open a discussion between us.  This is something that hasn't been achieved as of yet due to Spark's stubborn nature and his strict tolerances when it comes to handing out punishments. I did not want to partake in making this but I feel like I have been cornered with no way out besides this. Also! Please read my previous appeals before this. Otherwise, most of this won't make sense.

The Story -
I joined the Discord after a dispute on an unofficial Paradise Station MC server. I came in and bantered with a few British people and a handful of Germans. I can't remember their usernames but we were all laughing and exchanging jokes. I'm not too sure if Spark joined before me or after me but he never actually explicitly told me to keep the noise down or stop doing a specific thing. Not a single player also told me to be quiet. After a few minutes, I was kicked from the server alongside this other player who I have no affiliation with. From there on out I've been isolated from the Community and unable to speak to my friends in the Discord. We have actually had to make another server so I can speak to them. 

Communication -
This whole experience has been very, very poor for me. I have not been able to contact Spark civilly once through this entire situation. The times where I was able to get in touch and get a response, ended up with me being cussed at or being ignored completely. I think this is what surprised me the most. I assumed we would have a friendly chat where Spark would explain why I was banned and we could either come to an ultimatum or agree for me to write a ban appeal. This didn't happen. In my opinion, this is NOT how an admin should work. Not only was he unprofessional, but his decisions are wrong too. I will get to this in a separate paragraph. 

I've also tried to get into more of a civil conversation with Spark over a voice chat with a head admin administering it as to make sure it didn't get out of control. Unfortunately, Spark didn't want to do this either. "He'd rather not due to his busy work schedule lately and doesn't want this to become a proxy conversation. He'd rather it handled in appeal as he worries that the voice chat wouldn't be very productive." This type of opinion is one that's "lacking in substance." How are you meant to sort things out if you believe communication is a hindrance instead of a positive? It never works out.

Earliest Screenshots -
Immediately after the ban -
https://gyazo.com/3d7fbd41ccbea81511c238d92d3a148f 

Asking for a ban reason - 
https://gyazo.com/c30051d806d0b19f41060154eb2c3e24
 
https://gyazo.com/811d4ea86526baea164a30da18f2d3f8 (Yes, like I said in my appeal - I'm aware these are SS13 memes. But is this really the way to respond to someone?)
https://gyazo.com/3d66157ba70c91b217436183e82fb063 (Again, another joke. But it's not appropriate.)

Trying to open dialogue - 
https://gyazo.com/912251ee48baf002f838e1a32375ed19

Recent Screenshots (Before writing this. I attempted to talk to him one more time.) -
https://gyazo.com/35ebff0dcf709d3abf981915fdff608b
https://gyazo.com/ed92cd77e55a2eb92ad78922113f33e7

The Appeals - 
The first thing you think to do after you've been banned is to wait a while, get the information on what happened and draft an appeal. I had tried twice to discuss my ban on an appeal but both times it fell on deaf ears. I admit my first appeal wasn't as detailed as my second. But the replies I got from Spark were very cookie-cut. Almost as if he was just dealing with someone who had hopped onto the Discord and spouted racist slurs and just broke as many rules as they could. The arguments I brought up in my appeals were never answered and like I said, I received a very bland and short sentence explaining why I was banned. The reason changed dramatically on the second appeal. I am now being accused of lying. Which as quoted by one of the head admins - "It would be easier to consider it unfounded." Which is exactly what it is. The head admin actually collected some testimonies, which I've written about in my second appeal. I shall paste the related text here:

"Well yes, I admit sometimes I can get a little boyish and loud. But others didn't seem to have a problem with my behavior and have come out neutrally over this ban. Stating that they felt their opinion had no strong feelings one way or another. I'm not there to entertain people and make sure I adhere to everybody's certain opinions and perspectives of what a "voice chat" should involve and sound like. Did I go in there and cuss and offend anyone? No. Did I go in there with intentions of annoying anyone? Absolutely not. Again, this is all opinion based regarding the small selection of individuals that found me "loud and distracting." If it was so horrific as to dish out a permanent ban. Why are there people coming out with neutral standpoints?"
How can I be lying about "not" breaking the rules if people came out as neutral standing on the issue? If I came in there and broke every rule under the sun I'd understand the permanent ban with no form of communication from the banning admin. But that's not what happened. "If you perceive a conversation as not "bad" as some of the witnesses did, it surely shows that it was just a normal conversation. One that did not need a ban given out. If people don't think it's a good one or a bad one either it's just a conversation. There is a difference between saying "don't be bad" and "be good." And a conversation, especially one with lots of people in it isn't just black and white. ONE person cannot ruin the fun for such a big group of people. Unless of course, they're doing something extreme. Which I wasn't. I sat in there chuckling away with a multitude of people and only a small percentage of them ended up muting themselves."

Decisions - 
I'm not trying to get at Spark for his professionalism when it comes to being an admin but I think it's safe to say that what he did was not very professional. To ban someone, instantly mind you no warnings is quite a big thing to do. Even if that person is the most toxic, rule-breaking SOB on the server you still have to try to keep your wits about you and PM the person; either asking them what's happening, or what they're doing wrong. The thing is - I'm not the most toxic, rule-breaking SOB so I don't deserve to be treated as one. Like I've said in my previous appeals. I think Spark just took me as a troll coming into the Discord with no other objectives than to get a rise out of people. I always go in there and say hello to my SS13 friends. Nobody has had a problem with me thus far, and the one time someone does have a problem with me, it's an instant ban.

Conclusion - 
I'd like something positive to come out of this. So I'm hoping we can sort the ban out, sort our squabbles out and leave this all in the past. I still think that I was banned without any substance and that it was wrong for me to be banned in the first place. But this is why I have set up this complaint. So I can finally speak to Spark in a polite fashion. 

Thanks reader,

MamaFarthole

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by MamaFarthole
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[Dumbdumn5]

At the request of the user, I'd like to affirm that he spoke to me frequently trying to resolve the situation regarding his discord ban. Due to my prior involvement in the case, it would be best that another head or community manager choose to handle this complaint. 

[PurpleGenie]

Alright.

So I'd like to thank you for being patient throughout this whole process.

So reading over this and thinking on it, overall this seems to be that spark interpreted your actions as trolling, and names being powerful, likely took the name "mamafarthole" as a clear sign of that. Well, impressions can be tinted by past experiences, as was likely the case here. 

 You've been very polite and patient in dealing with us since. I want to skip right to the bottom line in this, because as I said this has taken far too long. 

Spark agrees that your in game behavior since this ban has been overall positive and he's agreed to process another appeal on this and do so knowing your recent positive contributions in game. 

Spark however is occupied in life matters at the present and will need a few days to get to it. For that extra bit of time I apologize and if you do post the appeal I'll see if he'd be okay with me taking it in his place for the sake of finally putting this all behind us. 

[MamaFarthole]

Hi Genie. Thank you for the message. I’ve followed your advice and created another appeal. I didn’t think it had to be too long since there is still the other two which sum up the whole situation quite nicely.

I didn’t really want to make this complaint in the first place, as I’m not one to make a fuss. It was actually created as a means of getting into contact with Spark. If I knew he was busy IRL I would’ve waited. But again, I couldn’t get into touch with him. 

I think I could consider this complaint “resolved” if Spark would take this to PM’s with me. I wouldn’t mind that. I think both parties need to say sorry privately and then just forget about it. If not, that’s alright. But until Sparks free to speak would it be okay if this complaint stays active? 

Here’s the link to the third appeal I’ve just made in response to your comment.

https://nanotrasen.se/forum/topic/13918-discord-banned-by-spacemanspark-ban-appeal-for-mamafarthole-7075/

[necaladun]

Apologies for the delay here - due to IRL issues I had to step down as headmin, and usually handled these things, or Dumb did, who is unavailable in this case. Although no longer a head, I will be reviewing this, and giving my recommendations to the headmins due to my previous experience in such matters.

First of all, I'd like to note that due to the previous notes on your account, and the ckey of "mamafarthole", one would make the assumption you're a troll. While it appears unfounded due to your conduct here, for an admin who has not dealt with you in this form of communication, it is generally a safe assumption to make, and is accurate in a very high percentage of the thousands of bans we've applied. Combined with your conduct on the discord, you raise many red flags of being a troll, and I'm honestly surprised with the politeness and professionalism you've shown here.

Voice chat is generally disliked for communication between players and admins, as it is not logged and cannot be referenced later. We prefer to handle things via appeal boards, where they are publicly viewable. Admins are under no obligation to engage with you in such manner, or in other ways except the appeals board. This also allows things to happen at a slower pace, where things such as logs can be reviewed, and fit into the schedule of those involved. This isn't at all to say that communication is a hindrance, but that it is instead preferred to be done on the forums.

There is also no obligation to warn people before bans. The "most toxic, rule-breaking SOB on the server" does not have to be PM'd first, nor does you not receiving said warning mean you're at all being treated like them. Those people are banned from the forums, server, discord, etc, with no help of appeal. I can assure you this isn't the case here.

 

When it comes to the appeals itself, Spark has claimed that your story contradicts his version of events. I see no evidence otherwise, and due to inability to log all audio communication, am faced with taking his word over yours.

In this case, Spark claims that " you and a friend decided to join the chat and spam/ harass other members of the community after an incident (which is not being held against you as far as the SS13 server goes). Despite repeated answers of "no" and to stop, you persisted.

Following my removal of you from the situation, either you or your friend chose to evade their discord ban (and were swiftly removed again). "

The reason for the ban thus seems to be about you persisting after being told to stop, which itself could constitute a warning. If someone doesn't follow said instructions, a ban is generally the only remedy possible. Your friend who you have "no association with" has been noted as a friend of yours ~5 months before this incident.

 

Thus I see that  no wrongdoing has occurred here on spark's account, and his lack of professionalism in reply to you is due to the assumption of you being a troll, which is understandable given your notes, name, and conduct in the discord. Spark has no reason here to lie or be dishonest, and due to this being handled later in appeals, I'm marking this as resolved.