Admin Complaint for IcyV

[SpiritOfRevenge]

 

Admin Key: IcyV

Player Key: SpiritOfRevenge

 

Complaint: IcyV does not enforce the rules consistently. IcyV slapped me with a permanent ban from the server for killing another player as a non-antagonist in a rage (a violation of rule #3, which states 'no excessive violence'), which I appealed successfully. I was playing today and noticed another player had stolen the HoP's locker and had an all access ID. Trying to recover it, I broke into his office space and ran off with it. The player called for help over the radio, and another player arrived in a Durand armed with a heavy laser gun and taser. Without asking me anything or stopping to analyze the situation, the player in the Durand lasered me repeatedly, removing me from the round. I adminhelped it, and was told it was "handled," but the player was still in the game. I attempted to bring this up politely with IcyV via adminhelp, explaining that this person was getting away with something I was banned for (a violation of rule #3), and I was threatened and cajoled for being on "thin ice." I didn't even know what myself being on "thin ice" had to do with the situation, since I wasn't the one who had broken the rules in this case, and I wasn't being aggressive or using hostile language. It just seems unfair that the exact same rule violation goes unpunished because the player on the receiving end has a ban history. All players should be entitled to the same protection under the rules of the server.

 

[DaveTheHeadcrab]

 

Allow me to pose a scenario to you:

 

A person, in anger, beats another person to death with a toolbox. Ahelp received, admin responds and goes about talking to each person. He checks the attacking player's notes.

 

Our reaction will be VASTLY different if we open the players notes and see that they've aready been warned several times for excessive violence, versus opening their notes to find a blank page. I wouldn't ban if the person had no notes on them, plain and simple. I would issue a warning, leave a note, and ban if it happened again. If, however, they did have a note about them already using excessive force, I would ban the person because warnings alone are clearly not rectifying the issue.

 

And the fact of the matter is, Spirit, you have a track record of excessive violence and overreaction from what I recall. I can't speak for IcyV, but this is my two cents.

 

Edited June 16, 2014 by Guest

[IcyV]

 

Woo boy, here we go.

 

IcyV does not enforce the rules consistently. IcyV slapped me with a permanent ban from the server for killing another player as a non-antagonist in a rage (a violation of rule #3, which states 'no excessive violence'), which I appealed successfully.

 

For clarification this was your 2nd or 3rd situation in which the exact same happened. You kill someone in a fit of rage without any real thoughts at all towards the player. I was fully taking your history and how you act into consideration when applying that ban, and that is why it is so especially harsh for you. I don't tolerate people who refuse to listen and learn from their mistakes.

 

I was playing today and noticed another player had stolen the HoP's locker and had an all access ID. Trying to recover it, I broke into his office space and ran off with it. The player called for help over the radio, and another player arrived in a Durand armed with a heavy laser gun and taser. Without asking me anything or stopping to analyze the situation, the player in the Durand lasered me repeatedly, removing me from the round.

 

Stopping here for a moment, I'll give you the details of the conversation with the Durand player. They explained how it was completely their fault and they believed they had their taser actively mounted. They didn't realize that they had the wrong one up until right after as there is no real notification during. It was an honest mistake from a decent player. Things happen.

 

I adminhelped it, and was told it was "handled," but the player was still in the game. I attempted to bring this up politely with IcyV via adminhelp, explaining that this person was getting away with something I was banned for (a violation of rule #3)

 

These situations are nothing alike. On one hand, in this case, we have a person who honestly and accidentally messed up and fully admitted to it. They were aware of where they went wrong and they have no history of other actions like this. You, on the other hand, have shown to use before that your actions are with a very specific intent. You go in to kill someone on purpose and no remorse in the moment. So, in short, I do ban consistently as these are completely different issues.

 

and I was threatened and cajoled for being on "thin ice." I didn't even know what myself being on "thin ice" had to do with the situation, since I wasn't the one who had broken the rules in this case, and I wasn't being aggressive or using hostile language.

 

You weren't threatened with that at all. You decided to argue with me on what this players punishment should be from your view and were more or less yelling at me to do it your way. You were notified that you were on "thin ice" due to your ban history and the sheer silliness of the argument. There are calm and respectful ways to get your point across, you did not take any of those.

 

It just seems unfair that the exact same rule violation goes unpunished because the player on the receiving end has a ban history. All players should be entitled to the same protection under the rules of the server.

 

Your first sentence is utterly false. Your second sentence is completely true and is how we do it.

 

[necaladun]

 

In our arsenal, we have bans, warnings, removal of limbs, and many other ways to make sure the rules are followed.

 

Depending on the players intent, understanding of the rules, politeness, and many other factors, this changes whether a permaban is applied, a warning, or something in between.

 

A player who has been warned repeatedly will not get the same punishment as one who has never before been warned, and is polite and apologetic when contacted. Their track record of behaviour on the server plays heavily into the punishment given (or not given) as does their attitude.

 

A long history of problems with no indication of a change of behaviour means we have to be more severe. You are one of these players. Multiple admin have raised problems with your behaviour, and this has resulted in you being on thin ice.

 

You being on thin ice, having already received 3 bans and a jobban from security, is why the punishment you would receive would not necessarily be the same as someone else.

 

The rules are not laws of the land. Bans are not to punish people. They are applied with judgement by the admin as to the best way to protect the server. There is no mandatory sentencing. This is not a nation state. This is a private server run by private individuals. We reserve the right to refuse entry, based on our judgement of what will make the server the type of server we want.

 

The other player in this case was never contacted by IcyV. He merely informed you that situation had been handled - by another admin, in this case. He has explained why no ban was applied in his post.

 

His enforcement of the rules is consistent. Nowhere in the rules are ban times mentioned. They state, in fact - "All moderators and admins have the power to ban players as they see fit (with reason, of course)."

 

As they see fit is the key part here.

 

tl;dr - prior history affects how punishment is applied.

 

Complaint Denied.

 

[SpiritOfRevenge]

 

Thank you for the clear and succinct reply, Dave. That seems like a pretty logical course of action, and I wouldn't have ever needed to make this thread if IcyV simply gave me that response when I asked for an explanation. All of my interactions with IcyV have been unpleasant and strongly negative - IcyV has consistently been rude and aggressive toward me, using condescending language, accusing me of being "delusional" and "stupid." In my unban appeal, IcyV wrote

 

If you get stressed, actually take a moment to use the brain you were given and back off to cool down. I find it silly someone has to be told this multiple times.

 

Immediately after I admitted, publicly and with difficulty, that I have an anxiety disorder. I thought this pretty offensive and ableist. It's roughly equivocal to making a comment to a person who has just revealed that they have a learning disorder about how "it's silly they have to be told [subject of learning difficulty] multiple times." I don't think this is very acceptable behavior for someone in a position of responsibility.

 

Necaladun - you pretty much reiterated what Dave said. I don't agree with a "strikes" policy like that for various reasons, but I don't have a problem respecting your authority to enforce it.

 

IcyV -

Stopping here for a moment, I'll give you the details of the conversation with the Durand player. They explained how it was completely their fault and they believed they had their taser actively mounted. They didn't realize that they had the wrong one up until right after as there is no real notification during. It was an honest mistake from a decent player. Things happen.

 

The player followed me around shooting at me repeatedly for about five minutes. I find it extremely hard to believe that they didn't see the completely different sprite the heavy laser has after firing it 15-20 times, or notice it when their laser blew up a welding tank, which is something that a taser can't do, or see the red text indicating they were scorching my hardsuit. Regardless of that, when I asked for an explanation from you, I received a hostile, incredulous response - "How dare this person question my decision!" If you had simply said exactly what's in the quote box above this paragraph to me at the time, instead of threatening me, I wouldn't have felt the need to make this thread. There are plenty of other admins on Paradise and none of them have treated me with the same blatant disdain that you have.

 

[IcyV]

 

I wouldn't have ever needed to make this thread if IcyV simply gave me that response when I asked for an explanation.

 

Convenient that you never asked for an explanation and instead went crying to use asking that the player gets banned. As Neca stated, I did not directly handle the case with that player. I passed on the information to you that it was handled, and that should have been the end of it. Immediately you found it necessary to attack me on that and tell me how the player should further be punished.

 

IcyV has consistently been rude and aggressive toward me, using condescending language, accusing me of being "delusional" and "stupid."

 

Please show me where I've said this. I can't recall one moment in which I've insulted you in such a manner. I can't recall a moment I've insulted any players like that. I sincerely apologies if it feels like I have been rude to you, that is not my goal. My patience can be worn thin, however, when I have to deal with situations such as yours when I have better thing I could be doing. Clear and simple matters stretched on for no real reason.

 

Immediately after I admitted, publicly and with difficulty, that I have an anxiety disorder. I thought this pretty offensive and ableist. It's roughly equivocal to making a comment to a person who has just revealed that they have a learning disorder about how "it's silly they have to be told [subject of learning difficulty] multiple times." I don't think this is very acceptable behavior for someone in a position of responsibility.

 

I must have missed the confession of an anxiety order then. I did see that you had your reasons for feeling as you do, and I decided not to delve into your personal life. I know people with extreme anxiety and have bouts of it myself from time to time. It's not a fun thing but it is absolutely no excuse for your actions. I don't mean to sound rude here, but it sounds like an excuse to try and get your situation dealt with more lightly. I don't play that way. You are 100% responsible for all of your actions while you are on our server. If you have an issue preventing you from following the rules, then that's all there is to it.

 

 

The player followed me around shooting at me repeatedly for about five minutes. I find it extremely hard to believe that they didn't see the completely different sprite the heavy laser has after firing it 15-20 times, or notice it when their laser blew up a welding tank, which is something that a taser can't do, or see the red text indicating they were scorching my hardsuit. Regardless of that, when I asked for an explanation from you, I received a hostile, incredulous response - "How dare this person question my decision!" If you had simply said exactly what's in the quote box above this paragraph to me at the time, instead of threatening me,

 

As it has been stated, I didn't directly handle that situation. I wasn't the one to look into it but I trust the judgement of the admin that did. I passed along to you that the situation was resolved, and you proceeded to go after me for this. You never once requested the details of the situation or the viewpoint of the other player. I would have gladly given you that if you had so requested. I don't know where you get the "How dare this person question my decision?" part, either. It wasn't my ban, I had 0 influence or tie to that. My only concern was you coming at me and trying to tell me how I should handle the player in question.

 

[SpiritOfRevenge]

 

Convenient that you never asked for an explanation and instead went crying to use asking that the player gets banned.

 

But... I did. The first thing I asked was, "What makes that player special? Why don't they receive the same punishment as me?"

 

Please show me where I've said this. I can't recall one moment in which I've insulted you in such a manner.

 

Read the quote in my previous post.

 

I don't mean to sound rude here, but it sounds like an excuse to try and get your situation dealt with more lightly.

 

So like... That was extremely offensive? I'm sorry you feel that way, but that isn't the case. The only reason I even brought it up in that thread was because I was explaining my behavior, not excusing it, which I said in that thread.

 

You never once requested the details of the situation or the viewpoint of the other player. I would have gladly given you that if you had so requested. I don't know where you get the "How dare this person question my decision?" part, either. It wasn't my ban,

 

This sounds like what you said at the top, but I'll reply to it. I said, in so many words, "why does that player get special treatment?" and your response was to call me deluded because I viewed the situations the same way. I had a different point of view - a different opinion than you, which admittedly was based on my interpretation of the rules as they are written, but you didn't have to insult me over it and send me threatening messages about how I'm on "thin ice" and better watch my ass or whatever. That's all I'm saying.

 

[mkenner]

 

This thread is dragging on and becoming personal. I'm going to bring it back on track.

 

Complaint: IcyV does not enforce the rules consistently...

 

As has already been established above. IcyV was not the admin in question.

 

All players should be entitled to the same protection under the rules of the server.

 

As Neca mentioned above, this is not our policy, thus it can't be considered as part of an admin-complaint.

 

Complaint Closed

 

The actual substance of the complaint was not applicable, therefore this complaint is closed.

 

Please address any changes to our banning policy (which is staff wide) to the suggestions forum.

 

Regards,

M Kenner.

Senior Admin.