Trial On Request for Captial Crimes

[MrKicker]

 

Under the current Standard Operating Procedure, the Head of Security (or Magistrate if present)  is not required to provide a trial under any circumstance. I propose that the Standard Operating Procedure be amended to force a trial on request for capital crimes. (See 'specific proposal' for more details.)

As I'm sure many of you have noticed,  the court has fallen into disuse. In the few months that I've been a part of this community with nearly daily playing, I've only seen its attempted use twice. The main goal of this modification of S.O.P. is to promote the use of the court so that we might be able to see it in action more often. The reason that I feel this should be a requirement specifically for capital crimes is to make sure that the punishment is justifiable before taking a player out of the round permanently. I also want to promote RP, I feel that the security department is to focused on kicking heads in and being robust instead of actually RPing, resulting in calls for a trial to result in removal of their headset at best, and immediate execution at worst.

My specific proposal for the S.O.P amendment is as follows:

• If a trial is requested by a crew member accused of a capital crime, the trial may not be denied except in emergency circumstances (see below).
• If a condemned crewmember requests a trial, they may not be executed until their trial has completed and they are found guilty (regardless of emergency circumstances).
• Emergency circumstances exist when personal needed to complete the trial are dead, or busy dealing with a station-threatening emergency. Once emergency circumstances subsides, a crewmember that would normally have the right to a trial may request one again.

Thank you for taking the time to read my proposal, If there is any uncertainty as to what I'm proposing, please ask a question and I will reply to you and amend this post to make it more clear. I also want to know how you feel about this proposal and its effect on security RP.

Edited October 6, 2018 by MrKicker

[ZN23X]

99% of the time security eventually becomes too busy to deal with minor crimes, never mind holding a trial for a Capital Crime that is cut and dry.

Realistically, Para is too fast paced and the rounds too short to hold a trial unless the round is unusually slow.

[TheClosetMailman]

6 minutes ago, ZN23X said:

99% of the time security eventually becomes too busy to deal with minor crimes, never mind holding a trial for a Capital Crime that is cut and dry.

Realistically, Para is too fast paced and the rounds too short to hold a trial unless the round is unusually slow.

Agreed, when i`ve played Warden, the best i could do was robust the magistrate (Read: They robust me with a baton and let themselves in) and drag them (me) to the accused prisoner, after nursing their (my) wounds im (they) are left to their own devices with the prisoner.

 

I don`t know what CC magic the IAAs and Magistrate do, but occasionally i get a stamped and signed paper for someone`s release out of perma, or even salvation from execution.

Still, none of those times, not even with the violent magistrate, has resulted in the court being used.

[EvadableMoxie]

Sometimes it's cool to have a trial and the law allows it to happen, but forcing security to take the time and manpower to indulge every EoC in a trial would probably be a disaster.

[TheClosetMailman]

Just now, EvadableMoxie said:

Sometimes it's cool to have a trial and the law allows it to happen, but forcing security to take the time and manpower to indulge every EoC in a trial would probably be a disaster.

I have an IAA scream at me a few times to do exactly that.

Its one of the few times i love that i`m allowed to stunbaton them and "escort" them out of the brig if they refuse to listen and start pushing their way in.

[Kyet]

Trials are unnecessary.

95% of the time, the suspect's guilt or innocence is easy to determine, and as a result, there is no reason to have a trial.

In many cases, sec doesn't even need to talk to the suspect at all to determine guilt or innocence, as simply searching their bag is enough.

For example, if someone is accused of being a syndie, and searched, and found to be carrying S-level contraband, that's it. Nothing they say is going to get them out of that charge.

Ditto, if they're accused of being a cultist, searching them and finding that they have cult items is enough to determine they're a cultist, regardless of what they say.

 

In order to even justify a trial, you need to be attempting to charge someone with a crime that doesn't hinge on the provable facts about what happened, but rather, hinges on less obvious things, like motivation. Essentially, you need a charge where the facts aren't in dispute, but rather, whether to convict or not hinges on subjective things, like whether their actions are considered to be in NT's best interests or not.

For example, if you're trying to charge someone with mutiny, but the person they committed mutiny against was acting terribly, and they argue that their actions were in the best interests of NT... that's an example of a case that's vague enough that maybe a trial might help.

Even in these cases, though, sec rarely has enough time/support from the rest of the crew to mount a trial.

Usually, even in case like this, people are simply far too busy to mount a trial. In cases like this, usually what happens is that the ranking crew member (HoS, or Captain, or Magistrate) simply makes a decision, and it sticks.

 

In the very rare case where the crime is one that's suitable for a trial, AND there are enough people/time/etc to do the trial, AND people actually want to do the trial.... even if the trial is done, it typically gets interrupted halfway through, and things default to one ranking person just making the decision and it sticking.

Trials are time consuming, and they tend to consume a lot of attention from command/sec, which actually makes it easier for the rest of the station to fall into chaos... and everyone knows this. As a result, command/sec have a disincentive to allow trials.

 

In short, forcing trials for crimes, ANY crimes, is not viable or desirable.

Trials are, and should be, rare things, for niche situations, and slow rounds.

They're time-consuming, which is good when nothing is going on, but simply not viable during busy rounds.

[Mitchs98]

I disagree entirely for all the reasons stated above. All this would do is slow down rounds as every single EoC and their mother would demand a trial, have their antag buddy sabotage it, and get away ezpz. Not to mention trials not being worth it or needed most of the time and its just antags trying to greytide or waste peoples' times by screaming over comms demanding for a lawyer/trial.

The only time I'd ever agree to hold a trial is if a crime truly was something of a mystery that required decent deliberation but the fact of the matter is you really don't need to most of the time. Most people that ask for lawyers are greytide that tided too hard and got caught, or antags that wish to annoy sec just a little longer by screeching over comms about their rights.

Competent security players are put off enough as is due to murderboning and other things, no need to add another thing to the list.