Ban handling - Blessedtuna, Shockpoint

[Guest]

Admin(s) Key: Blessedtuna, Shockpoint
Your ckey (Byond username): Gandalf2k15
Your Discord name (if applicable): Cobalt#6941

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): Span of yesterday(06/10/2018, 9PM GMT+1 - 1AM GMT+1)

Nature of complaint:
clarification required, misapplication of rules

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Essentially was banned, admin didn't give me a chance to explain, I feel as though this has been handled far too harshly, and the wrong type of punishment issued.

Full description of events:

(I was referred here by the admin to dispute the case)

So yesterday I was playing on the server, it was... what... my 6th round of the day? I had just come back from a long break(I don't know how long approximately). I was getting upto speed. Started playing as an IAA agent to help with this as I liked playing security and didn't want to jump right in. So I did, the round went very well. Engaged in some great situations and overall it was a great experience. I then played another round as a civilian to get used to things on that side too. Now granted I was very rusty in regards to the controls and what not but I was gaining my footing back very quickly. My final round before being the captain was my role in being the warden. I was reading up on SOP thoroughly, making sure every action fell within that. This round also went very well!  My track record on the server was choppy **AT FIRST** but what the banning/disputing admins failed to realise was that I went for a very very long time with CLEAN admin history. The events the admin at hand was referring to in my ban request(

) are SERIOUSLY old. I was warned ONCE for my actions as a head. I amended my actions, was clean ever since. I played hundreds upon HUNDREDS of rounds without fault. I had for all intensive purposes been reformed. Infact, I did so well that some of the admins gave me praise for my conduct. I did however begin to lose my activity over time. AS you do with any game sometimes it can be stale and repetitive. What I want to reiterate is that I do not make the same mistake twice. 

The point in which things began to go wrong was when I decided to play captain. The banning admin has taken multiple actions COMPLETELY out of context. And the disputing admin... I hate to say, wasn't there. He's taken logs out of context and given his decision based off of out-of-date logs and bias opinions. I was given captain the next round, a role I enjoy playing, though, I would have preferred security. I was given this role on medium. What I don't understand is how an admin can have such bias opinions on a matter. Both admins that were involved are talking about two COMPLETELY situations. My banning reason was for a completely different matter making this all the more complicated. Let me just address a couple of things; Put short I was not "valid hunting". Here's the situation that is referred to in the ban reason:

I was, as the captain, attacked by someone with a stunprod. Now think about that, I'm the captain, on code red, with confirmed traitors, one that is known to be a traitor attacks me(takes a stun prod out and fails to stun me). The admin claimed I should not have been there. What? I should not have been outside the kitchen getting food? Are you serious? The admin even claimed I was antag hunting because I STUNNED the traitor? I can't believe I'm hearing that. I have seen plenty of captains not only tase but LETHAL traitors that try to attack them. We're not talking about code green or blue, it's code red. I had already been attacked previously by a traitor too. This is what the admin was basing his original claim off. Now the reason the traitor was killed was because a traitor with a holoparasite can't be contained. He was attacking everyone, he needed field executed, and was. The HoS at the time agreed. 

Honestly I find it hard to believe I received a permanent ban for that. The next part the admin claimed I was doing was getting equipment from R&D. Which I was. yes. But seriously? I literally got a portal gun, shield and AEG. How is that against ANY rules?! I broke NO rule. Hell it wasn't even against SOP.  It was code red, I was being attacked, clearly a target. I guess his reasoning was "you're the captain, you're supposed to cower away in the bridge the whole round", what? No, the captain isn't some random from a university, he's the captain of the station, an entire station. Look at it in real life, cruise ship captains are expected to stay aboard if the ship is considered abandoned. Stay aboard and help out people until there is NO one left aboard. at which point he may leave. You could argue that a captain cowering away and running from situations is considered a breach in SOP. Take the Costa Concordia incident, the captain abandoned the ship without regard for anyone else and was imprisoned. All I did was go to the kitchen and R&D... I did not at any point actively attack anyone without reason. The admin handling my request looked at the logs, looked at my notes, all out of context. It is impossible for him to know where I was and what I was doing. You can ask the security borg or HOS as to what the situation was as they were there. 

The final point I'd like to bring up is the fact the admin at hand was conveying that "you're the captain, you should be an easy takedown" This makes no sense, why would the highest ranked position be an easy takedown? If an antag is going to attack me as the captain I'm not just going to sit there and let it happen. I defended myself, the guy took a stunprod out, I tried to tase him, the borg got him, he released a parasite, I fired lethals, he was killed, cremated. I never once hunted an antag down.

Now the only part of this I agree with is the fact I ordered the body be cremated after he was killed, dickish but necessary.. The admin cited(but did not include the rule), to which rule was he referring? Okay look I'm gonna stop here because the whole story has been explained now. I didn't even get a chance to correct the mistakes in the admins response or even defend myself. This is utterly unfair. I've just come back from a break and now I'm being banned because of such a small slip up... my history was essentially clean for hundreds of rounds. I don't even understand how this one slip up managed to get me permabanned. It's so unfair, I'm not a shitler, I'm not a dick, I'm here for the same reason as all the players are, to have fun. I feel as though the admins at hand are either bias for whatever reason, or that they can't be bothered looking into the situation fully. Is there some kind of ban quota to meet? Why has this occurred? I'd like someone of higher rank to deal with this and look at it from an unbias standpoint. I'm sorry if I come off as heated, I'm just really upset by the fact I was banned permanently and instantly for something that isn't even against the rules. Please take a look at this situation and rectify the issues I've experienced, the warning I was given by the admin was enough to shake me up and look into the rules further more. And I was gonna avoid captain from then on and out, but... I was never even given a chance. In the span of 5 minutes, where I was discussing with the NT rep as to how I could step down, I was then boinked again, informed I was going to receive a permanent ban... I'm sorry if I'm not perfect after being away for so long.

P.S. This is the only ban I've ever received... Seems so harsh.

Thanks for considering this,

- Gandalf

Edited October 7, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

One other thing; The banning admin claimed I was abusing my access. That simply is not true, I never abuse access. I never went into anywhere without permission or reason, I asked the R&D operator if I could enter and browse the selection of tools, he said yes... that is not abusing access and or power... I simply requested to browse around. The definition of abuse makes this accusation impossible.

[necaladun]

First of all, I'd like to say that this an incredibly difficult to read appeal with many irrelevancies. You playing as an IAA earlier, or the Costa Concordia, are completely and utterly irrelevant. While I hope there are no more, if you do make another complaint (or reply to this), please do keep things on point, and accurate.

I'm not seeing any evidence of "bias opinions" here. You don't even appear known to the admins in question, with none of your previous notes or bans, being from said admins. If you wish to accuse them of bias, some evidence of that would be required. Have you had previous interactions with them that would cause them to be biased against you that I'm unaware of? A pattern of biased opinions on validhunting or captains or something I"m unaware of?

I'm actually at a loss as to see where any bias would come from, or why you're making said accusations. The only bias I can see is because of your pretty awful previous notes - in which case, such bias is actively encouraged. Admins should be biased against people who have received many, many, previous warnings, from things as minor as making laws as captain without head authorisation, or as major as "As HoS declared Security to be "Gestapo" and told officers to act like Nazis. Also called someone "faggot" and "gay boy".". 6 previous notes for issues with you in command roles is a good reason to be more harsh on someone than just a warning.

You also claim "This is the only ban I've ever received... Seems so harsh.".

You have previously been job banned from command, and received a tempban for 4320 minutes for "As a non-antag, beat someone to near-death with metal rods.".

I'm going to assume here you merely forgot, rather than actively attempted to lie, as that would be incredibly stupid, considering we have records of the bans (and your forum accounts only previous posts are appealing said jobban).

I do not see any indication their reasoning was "you're the captain, you're supposed to cower away in the bridge the whole round". There is a massive difference between cowering away in the bridge, and between printing off a bunch of weapons and moving out to assist security. 

Shockpoint said in your appeal - "Four minutes later, you had decided to again "assist" Security against this player after Security was called there, proceeding to then kill them, in Arrivals North Maintenance, where you should not even be. Following this with a demand to cremate this player, which is very much not allowed as an execution method under Space Law. This is also a heavy breach of one of our rules, which is why the ban was placed instead of a warning.".

This is the issue here, that you were actively arming up, and responding to security calls. As per the rules on validhunting - (It is only the job of Security to stop Antagonists. If you are not a member of Security, then hunting Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists.) Arrivals North Maint is not R&D or the kitchen. No one is saying you attacked anyone "without reason".

No one is saying the Captain should be an easy takedown. Nothing in your PM discussions indicate that, and no one on staff believes that.

19 hours ago, Gandalf2k15 said:

I defended myself, the guy took a stunprod out,

In your appeal, you said:

Quote

 

In all honestly I am so very sincerely sorry for what I've done and honestly agree with the harsh punishment reaped upon me

 

You say you agree with it, but now you don't?

You also said:

Quote

I've played on this server since 2013 and never had any problems.

This is just complete bullshit, as your extensive notes indicate.

 

To get back to the original point of your complaint:

19 hours ago, Gandalf2k15 said:

Essentially was banned, admin didn't give me a chance to explain, I feel as though this has been handled far too harshly, and the wrong type of punishment issued. 

You even say you weren't given a chance to explain, despite you having a long conversation with the admin in game, and given the chance to explain yourself in the appeal.

Considering your multiple previous warnings and previous bans, this was not too harsh or the wrong type of punishment, and the complaint is without merit.

 

 

[Guest]

@necaladun

First off, thank you very much for the prompt response.

I just want to make one last point because what you've said here makes sense.

Would you be able to check when the last note was? The last time I was warned for behavioural issues? And then compare that to the amount of rounds I have played without issue? That is what I was referring to when I said years without issue. Look, my issue is not with said admins, it's with the fact they banned me after joining, a long period had passed too. They looked at me and my notes; banned me based upon them... without taking into account time... arguably the most important aspect. The amount of time played well versus the amount of time played badly. 

Now between the point of the long period starting and my last warning... must have been years. Because to the best of my knowledge and as far as I can remember I was never warned since the first few bans and warns I had. The reason I was such a tit at the beginning was because the station I first started playing was hippie station, after being told that playing like I was, was indeed completely against the rules, and as you stated I was banned, I never really committed any breaches in the rules again, I was so to speak a good player. 

Here's sort of a visual representation of the timeline:

2015: banned, warned. 2016: nothing. 2017: nothing. 2018(Jan to now): inactive.

That's a span of 3 years without fault!

I know it's hard to see it from my perspective but this is why I'm fighting it so hard; I know that I had a long history of playing well on here, in fact as far as I recall I played well for a few years up until I stopped playing; then came back... Made a slight hiccup... and was then permanently banned. The warning was enough... if anything a job ban. 

It just seems like you're looking at it as though I've constantly played like a cock, you're looking at it from just my original history back in 2015. It was literally only in 2015. Where infact most of my playtime has been spotless. A sort of "one bad apple soured the rest" situation. Just check the time stamps on the notes, please.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

I guess you can lock this or something now. I'll need some time to reflect and learn.