Zipties are just worse Cable Cuffs

[maintman]

I've only recently gotten back into SS13 after a few months of hiatus so my info might be off (Looking at the wiki as I make this but I'm not getting much), but as it stands there's really no reason to be getting or using zipties when you can just use handcuffs or some cable cuffs (Which are really just unbreakable zipties). I play sec sometimes when I get tired of gateway exploration, and always grab some zipties because I think they look cool and don't want to hog all the actual cuffs. 

I got a few ideas to buff zipties or at least make them on par with it's two counterparts. Not all of these ideas have to be used, but I hope at least some of them are considered.

• Make zipties a lot harder to break. While they aren't like their cold steel brethren, they're still very hard to break out of unless you're very strong or under the influence of drugs. I wouldn't give them the resist timer of handcuffs for balance reasons, but they need a little boost.
• Remove ziptie breakage upon assisted removal. I know they're supposed to be disposable and cheap, but they shouldn't break upon removal in terms of someone else attempting to take them off you, that process requires something like wirecutters or a lighter. Make them reusable when taken off by someone else and broken upon struggling out of them at least.
• Make it so that zipties are stackable in maybe sets of 3 or 4, similar to actual riot police. Carrying around a bunch of handcuffs on your body takes up a good chunk of space when in high intensity situations, you could be using that space for another gun or something. The stacks should still be pocket or beltable as well, nothing's stopping you from slapping a carabiner on and clipping them on.
• Nerf cable coils and swap their properties. The cable coils will instead break upon removal or enough struggling and the zipties won't. There's tons of cable coil on the station, meaning endless amounts of unbreakable makeshift handcuffs. Compare that to the limited amount that sec gets, which correct me if I'm wrong, is about 10 to 15. There's no advantage to using zipties, an actual product used by police, over some cables tied together.

I was going to add another point suggesting the decrease of handcuffing speed when using zipties, but in my time using them I never actually paid attention to whether zipties were faster than handcuffs or not. If I got something wrong, correct me. Zipties need some love, man.

Edited November 30, 2018 by maintman

[BrandonSacawv]

Good ideas. I'd like to see zipties stackable and no break upon assisted removal. Additionally, I agree that cable coils should be nerfed to break upon removal.

 

Honestly, in my opinion it'd be like this-

• Handcuffs- longest time to put on, but hardest to resist out of.
• Zipties- stackable, medium time to put on, easier to resist out of than handcuffs, does not break on assisted removal
• Cable cuffs- fastest time to put on, easiest to resist out of, breaks upon assisted removal

Edited November 30, 2018 by BrandonSacawv

[maintman]

2 hours ago, BrandonSacawv said:

Good ideas. I'd like to see zipties stackable and no break upon assisted removal. Additionally, I agree that cable coils should be nerfed to break upon removal.

 

Honestly, in my opinion it'd be like this-

• Handcuffs- longest time to put on, but hardest to resist out of.
• Zipties- stackable, medium time to put on, easier to resist out of than handcuffs, does not break on assisted removal
• Cable cuffs- fastest time to put on, easiest to resist out of, breaks upon assisted removal

I like. You basically just simplified what I was trying to get at, not that I'm complaining. Cuffing times might be iffy though, they'd probably have to scale with a taser bolt (5 secs) or stun baton strike (7 secs) and actually give you a chance to get over to cuff them or pull out your cuffs.

[Eler00]

I thought zipties already are faster to put on than handcuffs? That + not leaving behind handcuffs once remvoed is their advantages (as in, you don't need to go reclaim handcuffs from a perma prisoner after you buckle him to his bed and so on)

[maintman]

5 hours ago, TDS said:

I thought zipties already are faster to put on than handcuffs? That + not leaving behind handcuffs once remvoed is their advantages (as in, you don't need to go reclaim handcuffs from a perma prisoner after you buckle him to his bed and so on)

Yeah, zipties are faster to put on than handcuffs. I'm not sure whether the zipties or cable cuffs should have the faster cuffing time, but for balance reasons the cable cuffs probably needs it.

The problem I have with zipties breaking upon any kind of removal is that there usually just isn't enough to last you a whole round if people actually use them. Of course, an increase in amount would alleviate this, but would still leave behind the other issues that should be addressed.

 I don't exactly agree with your prisoner point. This might go for only some sec officers, but I always take out a flash or pepperspray in my opposite hand to ensure that any resistance is stopped, or if they manage to disarm me, not be able to stun me back because of my gear. You can also just run out of the cell when you take the cuffs off and use the mounted flash, but flashing and pepperspraying people feels nice. Zipties should be a middle ground between handcuffs and cablecuffs, because as it stands they're essentially just breakable and pretty limited versions of cablecuffs.

Edited November 30, 2018 by maintman

[Fox McCloud]

Zipties exist for 2 major reasons.

One is because of beepsky. If he has cable-cuffs or handcuffs, then he becomes a source of handcuffs for the crew--people can abuse him to farm handcuffs, both for their own advantage and for metal+glass. This isn't just theory, either; we actively saw this happen back when beepsky used actual cuffs.

 

Another reason why they exist is so when you remove them from someone, they can't just turn around and insta-table/push you and cuff you with your own cuffs. Not re-usable, but has an advantage.

 

They fill their niche, and for officer use, they have their own niche advantage. They really don't need to be buffed.

[Spartan]

Zipties not being removable is actually very helpful. You can leave a prisoner in their cell to break out of their cuffs and then they're not immediately armed with cuffs.

You have the option to use either as an officer. Sure one is re-usable and takes longer to break out of, but the other is safer for you to use.

[Pennwick]

On 11/30/2018 at 4:09 PM, maintman said:

Yeah, zipties are faster to put on than handcuffs. I'm not sure whether the zipties or cable cuffs should have the faster cuffing time, but for balance reasons the cable cuffs probably needs it.

This is false. Handcuffs, Zipties, and Cable cuffs all have the same cuff time of three seconds. Other than zipties breaking the differences are in breakout times. 60 seconds for handcuffs, 45 for zipties, and 30 for cable cuffs.

I think Zipties are in a pretty good place actually. If they needed any changes it would be to make more available for security, currently the warden starts with a box in their locker and there are 8 in the security vendor.

[Kryson]

The upside of zipties, as stated by the guy on TG who coded them IS that they break on removal so you can leave them on the prisoner and not give them a free set of cuffs.

I would not mind making them stackable though.

I would also kinda like if they were craftable using plastic sheets, i was actually going to suggest that on the TG forums.

If think letting you apply them faster would be a neat idea but security does not really need more buffs on paradise where traitors get stomped round after round.

[Triiodine]

My only complaint about zipties is that they share the same generic sprite with cable cuffs, however, anyone with photoshop and 20 minutes on their hands could fix this. But of course, since that's just a super minor QOL thing it doesn't REALLY matter in the long run. I'd agree with Fox, cuffs are in a good place, everything is sort of covered.

However, regarding QOL, dark cuffs really should get their own destroyed variant for when you finally bust out of em. Or of course none at all, the only distinction between them and zipties is the actual naming schema, so you have to shift, right, or alt click to figure out if those busted cuffs are from cultists or silly beepsky victims.