Rework bone breaking

[Coul]

Currently, your bones will break if your limb damage exceeds the bone break threshold.. this is 15 damage for feet and hands, thats about three punches.

 

I'd like to make bone-breaking less predictable and way less common, there should be a minimum damage threshold necessary to actually break bones(so something like ants don't break your bones). and instead of having bullets break bones they should embed themselves in you.. its kinda weird having your elbow snap after you've been shot by a 9mm. I'd also like a raising probability of bones breaking the more damage a bone takes instead of just OOP IT HIT 15 DAMAGE GUESS ITS BROKEN NOW. Thoughts?

 

Details i'd like to work out with community feedback:

How can we make bone damage unpredictable but still make sure its not unfair/unfun RNG?

Can we change the downsides of bone breaking to be less debilitating and game ending or perhaps raise the downsides but make them much more rarer?

If we want to handle bullets differently and have them embed themselves in you how would we do it? Having lead in you could lead to toxic damage and even infections. This should be around the same level as having a broken bone but should still be unique in its own regards.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Coul
A bit more fleshed out, request for feedback.

[DerpehBoi]

I agree actually. It shouldnt be a predictable thing. And yeah bullets should embed.

[Medi]

Suggestion: 

Have bones break based on an increasing percentile based on that specific bone damage. Torso, head, arms, and legs should be fairly robust while hands, feet, and abdomen should be relatively soft.

Every damage basically raises the "chance" of a bone breaking once it reaches a base threshold. This percentile just needs to be balanced enough to be not-frequent but it won't save unlucky souls implicitly.

IRL the issue with long-bone fractures such as the femur is blood loss that pools in the cavity. With those bigger bones that are more robust, add internal bleeding and remove it for the "softer" bones.

[Tayswift]

On the topic of bullets not breaking bones, maybe it would be a good idea to expand this to other damage types. Maybe blunt weapons have a higher chance of breaking bones, but things like bullets and scalpels maybe not so much.

[SkeletalElite]

Hand breaking is really annoying, its so easy to do (only takes 15 damage) meaning any weapon of any substance doing brute will 1 shot break your hand. TG removed aiming for hands and feet completely (I think it was for that reason but I'm not 100% sure on that) I'd really like to see it reworked in a way such that aiming for hands does not practically make the hand removed.

I like your idea of the downsides being changed specifically for broken hands, rather than being unable to pick anything up and just dropping everything perhaps make the dropping happen only occasionally and make it so theres a failure chance of picking something up but once you have it in hand you likely wont drop it for a while.  

Perhaps when your hand first breaks it will be a guranteed disarm of the hand but after that the effect becomes manageable?

Edited May 22, 2019 by SkeletalElite

[Mitchs98]

For the love of all that is holy do not bring back shrapnel/embedding. It is absolutely hell to deal with medical wise.

Otherwise, the changes to bones breaking could be pretty neat I suppose.

[Coul]

So now that lavaland is here I got the idea of making it so embedded bullets can be removed by anything sharp but while bullets are inside you you’ll take slight toxin damage,  removing the bullet with a sharp object will have a chance of making the wound worse but will never fail.

 

As for bone breaking I like the idea of the probability of the bone breaking rising and limiting how much damage is required to break a bone(your bones wouldn’t really break from a bruise) so maybe a minimum of 5 brute damage has to be applied to roll for bone breakage

[Tayswift]

9 hours ago, Coul said:

while bullets are inside you you’ll take slight toxin damage,

I think this could be done in a more interesting way than this. The lead poisoning from a bullet would only be over long term, and having to remove the bullet is just an overdone hollywood cliche.

[Coul]

I'll leave the bullet rework for another time, I feel like dealing with bone breaking should be priority due to how game-breaking its been lately. especially with the lavaland mobs

[Coul]

PR for the bone nerf is now up: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/11653

I'll work on doing something for bullets later on.

[Regular Joe]

On 5/22/2019 at 12:55 AM, Coul said:

Details i'd like to work out with community feedback:

How can we make bone damage unpredictable but still make sure its not unfair/unfun RNG?

Can we change the downsides of bone breaking to be less debilitating and game ending or perhaps raise the downsides but make them much more rarer?

If we want to handle bullets differently and have them embed themselves in you how would we do it? Having lead in you could lead to toxic damage and even infections. This should be around the same level as having a broken bone but should still be unique in its own regards.

On tweaks to bone breaking, I like it. Maybe bit higher probability, still, just for having breaking opponent's bones a viable combat tactics - viable, not a trump card which it is as of now.

On bullets, it would be neat feature that getting shot would give you slightly different outcome in terms of damage, compared to toolboxes ie. brute by melee. 

 

I'll have some input on gunshot wounds here, just if it was for any interest.  So - the nature of them depends highly on round used, range and possible armor that is worn by the victim, and of course, where the shot lands. We will outright forget the range aspect here. On rounds, there are few types present on the station. So you might want, if to tweak bullets, to make them differ of each other.

Generally, rifled guns deal more or less severe hemorrhage on impact, as of the shot penetrates through the victim and destroys soft tissue on their way, creating a hole-like wound on exit. Caliber of the gun roughly speaking will tell you how large is this impact (through ballistic features aren't that straight-forward, but I'll forget these here for simplicity, as well of the types of bullets, which you probably know enough from gaming, fmj/hp/such). Larger round for worse wounds and more grand hemorrhage. On hemorrhage, I wrote something of it at the new crit discussion few months ago. Dying based to blood might not just be good for the game, so probably we'd forget about that. Instead, bullets could do good deal of organ damage depending where they land to, to make some difference.

TLDR: Bullets could deal internal damage to the organs of the respective bodypart.

On bone breaking as a gunshot wound symptom, it's a matter of (bad) luck, to the best I know. If a bullet hits bone, it might break it, splinter it, or change its course. So it's a factor of whether the shot lands on a bone at all, and if indeed does, is the hit direct enough to break it. You had to have more bad luck with pistol and small rifle calibres. As of, greater the impact energy,  greater the likelihood of the bullet of drilling through the hard thing (bone) it hits, instead of changing it's direction a bit. Then again I'm not all certain of these, as of what I know of the subject is from military first aid things, while bone breakage isn't a big deal to worry when somebody is shot. Game-wise, it might be also reasonable for not be an issue to worry ingame, too, to make things different and lessen the amount of bone surgery happening - to give variety.

TLDR: Reasonable enough to nerf bone breakage due to bullets, if you'd implement other symptom for them, like internal damage dealing. Shotguns, in other hand, differ to this. Buckshot, hitting a large area with multiple pellets will break them.

On penetration and embedding, indeed digging out embedded bullets are more of an Hollywood thing. There's a chance though, depending on the round. More likely is, that a bullet, especially if it's of the that type, splinters in to the body and that is a horror of thing. Or a bullet makes bone to splinter to the tissue around it. With a very small energy they might just stay in a body - or, if gone through armor (being a highly powerful one) it might stay in, because of it has no more enough energy to drill through the back side. Shotguns differ a bit, for what I know pellets would stay inside more probably, not that certain though. Anyhow, if something foreign embeds into you, it isn't a thing to hurry. Effects caused by that should be minor. Minor toxin? Or depending on the area in which it's in, pain messages, bit slower movement, difficulty in expressing oneself?

TLDR: Game-wise, there could be a (very) small chance for embedded bullet causing toxin just for a doctoring gimmick.

Armor affects gunshot wounds greatly. Ballistic armor, if successful, will prevent the shot to penetrate you, instead causing you damage as of you were hit by something blunt. Greater the round, greater the impact. You'll get knocked down by most, at least.  So, being hit while wearing a vest could, by chance, cause a stun or even (almost certain) bone breaking, in trade of greatly reducing the actual brute damage caused, and completely scratching the internal organ damage, if applied. Then again this might just be hard to actually write (you'd need to tinker with the balance of the armors probably).

 

Then again, having bullets do different damage in terms of bone breaking and else, is a possibly neat feature. Possibly.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Regular Joe