Admin Complaint: XProlithium

[AngryAnt]

Admin(s) Key: XProlithium
Your ckey (Byond username): AngryAnt

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 6/27/19

Nature of complaint:

Abuse of power, feedback, metagrudge.

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):

Banned for killing as a vampire, spacing bodies to destroy evidence.

Full description of events:

So, lite summary of what happened essentially - I was bwoinked for killing too many people as a vampire, my goal was to get a colossal ton of blood to enthrall a few people to have at my command. I roleplayed with each and every target I had, granted I killed them in the end but I did attempt to make it interesting. My kill toll was around 4-6 on a 90+ player round.

 

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: You are aware there is such a thing as taking things too far. Yes? Kind murdering crew members then preventing them from being cloned when they're not targets?

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: Which we've seen you do multiple times now?

PM to-XProlithium: I'm an antag, my goal is literally to drain people of blood - do you really think I'd let the HEAD OF SECURITY live?

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: Okay you have killed a number of people, and permadeath'd them. So that they can't be cloned, despite the fact they're not your target.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: In fact, the only person you should reasonably permadeath is your assassination target.

PM to-XProlithium: Yeah, what's wrong with that? I'm not a traitor or something, I'm a vampire. I literally need to kill people to grow stronger.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: No, you need 500 blood to be full power, after that you're just murdering for sport.

PM to-XProlithium: I'm murdering to get more blood.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: "Full power" which is 500 blood is your end-game. After 500 blood, you're just murdering to murder. Which isn't bening a reasonable antag.

PM to-XProlithium: I've never been bwoinked for killing as an antag that needs to kill, out of curiosity - were you the HoS?

PM to-XProlithium: I had plenty of chances to be killed myself, it's not my fault that I managed to one up people that were trying to kill me first.

PM to-XProlithium: literally makes zero sense for someone to explain to someone else how to be an antag "properly" - I'm killing to get blood, so that I can take down targets that I have to focus on easier.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: Murdering is fine, *PERMAKILLING* when they aren't your target is not necessary.

PM to-XProlithium: I mean, it's a little unreasonable to tell someone about some hidden rule that they have no idea about - and what stops them from being cloned and blabbing? I thought the whole clone syndrome thing was thrown out.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: Quote straight from the rules: "The role of the Antagonist may pit you against the station. However, this is not grounds for murderboning the entire crew if your objective is to steal a jetpack, as you must work towards your objectives, not general mayhem."

PM to-XProlithium: Yeah but the whole point of my role is to gain more blood, which requires you to either crit or kill. I want to enthrall people, so I'm saving up.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: And I'm telling you to tone the murders down or at least allow them to be found and revivable.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: That is the issue I am bringing up, you have /permakilled/ several people.

PM to-XProlithium: Yes, because if they get cloned at least half of them will absolutely without a doubt tell everyone and their friends that I'm a vampire - and I'm trying to kinda be stealthy here.

PM to-XProlithium: So if I let them be cloned, I'm basically screwing myself over when I'm trying to play a certain way - which is to slowly take out people until I can complete my objectives with little risk - while adding a little roleplay before killing.

PM to-XProlithium: I could understand if I was a traitor and was just randomly shooting people, but your literally telling someone whose entire game mechanic revolves around killing people other than your target to play a specific way so that they'll get caught quicker.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: See the problem here is you aren't taking into account the number of players whose round you're ruining because of it. Your assassination objective is one thing, your but preventing everyone else you kill from being revived is entirely another.

PM to-XProlithium: I've been killed plenty of times by antags, and so has everyone else. If you get killed by an antag, it's just how it is.

PM to-XProlithium: I mean, you realize the chances of getting antag is pretty low on a server with 100 people? I'm trying to have fun too y'know.

PM to-XProlithium: So basically I'm ruining peoples rounds by being an antag.

PM to-XProlithium: Like, could I even explain what I was trying to do here first? I was going to gather lot's of blood, enthrall a few people, get the head of security, disguise myself as him and issue out a warrant for my target to kill on sight for being a vampire. I'd say that's a lot more than murderboning or killing for sport.

PM to-XProlithium: And right now it's working perfectly fine, I'm the head of security and nobody suspects a thing.

PM from-Trial Admin XProlithium: Mkay, you want to sit here and argue with me after I've told you to stop murderboning, you won't be playing antag for a while. After 500u of blood, you DO NOT need to murder anyone. And the simple fact you're murdering and making them unrecoverable is compounding the issue. You have 770 total blood, meaning you're full power, and 585 usable blood which is, again, far more then a full power will ever need.

PM to-XProlithium: Yeah, well - don't worry about it. I'm done with this round, I've never heard anything so insane as to say that you shouldn't murder people as a vampire - regardless of how much power I have or not I've seen plenty of other people kill many and have had no issue. I'm guessing you were the Head of Security and got upset that I killed you, I'm going to go to cryos.

[I cryo'd after this, since all the time spent going back and forth with this guy ended up getting me found out.]

PM to-XProlithium: It's really interesting how I got bwoinked right after killing the HoS. Not an hour ago, but right after that.

Ghost of Benjamin Hope moans, "Yep, I got bwoinked for killing people as dare I say it.. A VAMPIRE."

Alexei Petrovich whines, "did you kill them by sucking them dry?"

Maxwell Kader moans, "Really?"

Cardiox Nazzr blubbers, "Depends on how you kill them..."

Ghost of Benjamin Hope salts, "Yeah, he jobbanned me."

Praxis Chailer blubbers, "Bwoinks shouldn't strictly be scary"

Ghost of Benjamin Hope salts, "Lmao"

Praxis Chailer salts, "Hey hey, appeal that"

Ghost of Benjamin Hope whines, "I killed his character and he jobbanned me, nice."

Praxis Chailer complains, "Appeal that."
 

Disclaimer: I get that I was a bit of a dick BUT, he was doing this whole thing right in the middle of an hour-long plan in the making - right at it's roleplay peak.. I had finally disguised myself as the head of security and was pretending to be mute while signing with the warden asking where I was. Ruined my entire round so naturally I was a little ticked.

 

[necaladun]

First of all, the admin in question was not the hos. How this at all is a metagrudge is beyond me.

Antags have rules about how much violence they can do for their objectives. Being an antag does not mean you can permakill to your hearts content.

Between your argument with the admin, the false accusations, and the reddit post of extreme salt, its quite clear to ne that Prolithium was correct in upgrading your ban.

Also, the number of antags scales with players. The chance does notdecrease with 100 players. But rarity of antag roles do not change the rules here. When an admin tells you to tone down the murderbone, you do it. 

 

Complaint, deadchat, and reddit salt, are all without merit.

[necaladun]

Further Clarification now I actually have a lot more time and a computer to properly type on:

The "perma" part of the killing here isn't the issue, and this was discussed (extensively...) with many admins and XProlithium. Killing people for blood is allowed, and there is no issue with making sure they're not revived to out you. Making sure people you kill stay dead, is generally just smart play for an antag. As he stated, it compounds the issue. The permakilling isn't itself the only factor here, just something that adds to it. After you have full blood, killing others should be directly related to your objectives. When you have over 700 total and 500 usable blood, it's really not necessary.

Murdering to get blood, has it's limits. Vampires do not have free reign to murder to their hearts content as long as they are getting blood. A general rule of thumb is once you're full power, and with a few hundred usable, continuing to mass blood is kinda a dick move.

There is exceptions and context, ofc. Disposing of the corpses of random people that die that had nothing to do with you, is generally frowned upon for instance.

XProlithum has been talked to about the emphasis on the "perma" part of the killing and how to be clearer in discussions with players about this kind of thing.

The crux of the issue is really the attitude showed here and in PMs to the admin.

If they tell you to tone down killing, you agree to do so. In this case he told you to tone down the permakilling from now on in this round - not even to stop killing people. This isn't to say you shouldn't permakill people at all, it's that Prolithium wanted you to stop permakilling people in that round, as he believed you had already done enough damage.

Admins do not have the time in round to engage in extended arguments, especially with you being "a bit of a dick" as you admitted. There may be a dozen other antags, greytiders, etc. Being a dick, either a full dick or a bit of one, is against rule 0 quite explicitly. We prefer people to not be a dick at all.

Further clarification, arguments, or even suggestions/debates to change the rules, we can quite happily engage in on the forums and discord, like I'm doing now.

Remember, admins cannot change policy during the round - just like a retail worker cannot change corporate policy.  We require you to follow instructions given to you at the time, even if you believe they are incorrect.