Cortical Borer Rework/Objective Ideas

[Veterankyl]

So the Borer is in a bit of a tough spot at the moment. They're considered antags, but the vast majority are friendly towards the crew and are more often than not a good thing to have. I believe that borers should be a neutral, somewhat hostile entity that needs to be treated less like a pet and more like an actual potential threat to the station. Sure, there'll still be benefits to having one in your head, but the borer should be more interested in its own affairs than the host. To fix that, I believe the borer needs new objectives and/or mechanic changes.

 

• The first objective idea being Create and defend a nest till the end of the shift. This objective essentially requires a borer to find a location for a 'nest' structure, get a host there to build the nest, then have the host sit within the nest for a certain amount of time before becoming assimilated by it, causing the host to (At their choice) either be killed or turned into a borer (defaulting to kill if they don't respond soon enough), and the original borer to be ejected from the body. The nest acts as a permanent borer spawn, creating new borers about every two minutes. Once created, all other borers are informed on its location and given the objective to protect it. Unless the nest is destroyed, no other nests can be built. People infected with borers will be 'struck by sudden guilt' when attempting to harm the nest and won't be able to damage it. Essentially, the more people infected, the harder it'll be for the crew to destroy the nest. Of course, the crew can accept the one sacrificed crew member for an infinite supply of chem injector implants, but they should also consider the fact that the borers may hijack the crew if their nest is threatened.
   
• The second objective idea is Infect enough people to establish the hivemind/Infect as many individuals as possible. This objective requires the borers to infect a certain number of people (About 10, depending on server pop) in order to establish the 'Hivemind'. Borer telepathy will not be altered. Unlocking the hivemind will give the borers new powers that scale based on how many people are infected. Thinks like faster chem creation, longer stun and control duration, or a HuD to identify other infected individuals. The downside is that the increased neurological activity from the borer slowly damages the hosts brain. Now, the borer could use their chems to heal this damage, or they can wait till the host becomes brain dead, which allows them to assume permanent control. The other downsides being that, once the hivemind is established, the borer will always show up on Health HuDs, are are more vulnerable to sugar.
   
• The final idea I have, (Which should require minimal coding) is to randomly give borers simple miscellaneous objectives. No assassinations or grand thefts, but things like 'Consume a certain food' (May or may not be toxic to the host), 'Hug/knock over/punch a certain number of people', or 'Make your host wear certain clothes upon escaping the station'. They're borers. We know next to nothing about them, where they're from, nor why they may want to do all this weird stuff. These are minor things that'd give borer players more to do than just reproduce, and it'd make things interesting for the crew as people wonder why the captain is running around in the clown outfit while hugging everyone. If a lore reason is needed, it can be that the borers are 'collecting experiences and memories of a certain kind to benefit the hivemind'. This isn't gonna make all crew hate borers, but it'll be enough to actually make them disruptive to station affairs.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Veterankyl
Grammer

[Gaty]

I dislike it, borers relation with crew is a simbiotic one and the objectives will only cause borers to get instantly valid or people to get griefed by and because of them.

[McRamon]

I generally dislike borers as a midround event. 

I would love to see them reworked and becoming rotation antag, some sort of cult style.

I understand that this is just the game and all, but i just cant understand how sometimes cute girl characters look at borers like how they look at fluffy kittens, when in reality they are gross slugs who enter your body through only god knows which holes. Being infected by a borer and then helping them reproduce by puking more borers from your mouth is like one of the most awful things that exists in the game. 

Anyway, i agree that they need to have some negative effect on the crew, so people would treat those disgusting abominations as they deserve to be treated. Antag-borer symbiosis is a valid option, tator can consider helping borer in order to benefit from its chemicals, however it must have downsides, so not every crewmember would allow themselves to be infected like it is right now. 

[Eler00]

Personally, I think borers should get _some kind_ of objective, though maybe not those. Something for them to actively work towards instead of a) dicking around being jerks or b) being a personalized chem dispenser pAI with no agenda.

[Gaty]

30 minutes ago, TDS said:

Personally, I think borers should get _some kind_ of objective, though maybe not those. Something for them to actively work towards instead of a) dicking around being jerks or b) being a personalized chem dispenser pAI with no agenda.

I think their objective is already just surviving.

[Ferrius]

55 minutes ago, Gaty said:

I think their objective is already just surviving.

Well, its relativly easy. 

19 hours ago, Veterankyl said:

or they can wait till the host becomes brain dead, which allows them to assume permanent control.

You can also control braindead monkey humanoids from the clonebay , and i think that this should be nerfed. Maybe, a lively and juicy brain of RD for example, that can give sustance for the borer, and maybe add some sort of evolution menu akin to changelings, exept borer need to gain a certain amount of "brain power" before he can unlock his powers. It can be normal "chem borer"; or it can be a mutant strain that gives random power from vampire or changeling, after infecting host for some time; the last will  be "mimic" - it can turn invisible when standing still and when stay long enough inside a host, can hide him too. As for objectives, besides "live and reproduce", it can be ordered to infect and keep a certain host until the end of the round, get borers to infect at least 1 host in each department, exept captain, or, at random, forcing a newcome borer to become a part of "infector strain", that spread the disiease, which makes people to move slow and do things longer, if they dont have a borer inside. But it can be spreaded only from infectors host with a touch and disease lasts for 5 minutes, it also massivly reduces sugar stun timer. The host himself become immune to any disease, while its borer cant breed. Another random strain can be "sindie borer" that molds the flesh of its host into a killing machine. As it infects a host, the effects begin to take appearance after 3 minutes. Then, you will take over your hosts body completly and you will have to find a safe place withint 1 minute timer. After that timer ends, you enter a cacoon, after short gestation period, now yours body turn into angry piece of very leathiry meat, as the mind of your host enters your rejuvinated borer body and goes on to repeat the cycle, you will have a sturdy and fast body with 2 armblades, that can breack airlocks. But, you arent exactly a golem, as well as its agains your interest to kill a potential host for your decendant. You dont have any means to paralyze and safely secure a host, instead, you'd have to guard your nesting place until cycle repeats few more times, before your mission begins - destroy all security and commanding staff on the station. But, not to drag this out for way to long, if no normal human remains on the station (and not anywhere else, like in CIT case) its a victory. However, you are strongly against butchering innocents, as sindicate imprinted a set of instructions upon your tiny mind:
1) Fufil your mission
2) Do not harm unarmed hosts
3) Attack only in defence - you must scare away your hunter, but do as less harm as possible.

4)Do not create envierment, hostile to the hosts.

[Tarhalindur]

Borers are in my opinion intended to be a Venom sort of thing. "You help me and I'll help you."

On a HRP server like Baystation this could probably be played out better, but we aren't HRP. 

Giving borers harmful objectives is a bad idea. We already have problems with borers occasionally killing people for no good reason, which they shouldn't do. We don't need them to be given in-game permission to do that.

If borers are to get objectives it should be something a) minor and b) non-harmful. Things like "remove all floor tiles from x area" or "steal the YouTool from Primary Tool Storage".

[Eler00]

2 hours ago, Gaty said:

I think their objective is already just surviving.

let me rephrase that: Objectives that are at least somewhat interesting or challenging. If a borer just wants to survive, he can idle in a pipe until round end or whatever. The purpose of antags/their objectives is to make the round interesting and shake things up. Right now, borers really don't do that.

[rb303]

I like the third idea, but not the first or second. I dunno, I just get the vibe of cult but with two players in one body.

[Kinnikonnie]

Borers as antags does not sound very good to me. It would be a constant struggle of controlling a person and them taking control back. But yes they are very boring at the moment. Some smaller objectives that are abductor like would be fun, even such things as send an assfax to CC or steal as many shoes as possible.

[necaladun]

https://ss13.moe/wiki/index.php/Borer

 

Have some very interesting abilities on vg. How that would combine with objectives idk but worth a read.

[Ferrius]

5 minutes ago, necaladun said:

https://ss13.moe/wiki/index.php/Borer

 

Have some very interesting abilities on vg. How that would combine with objectives idk but worth a read.

I think thats the spot.

[necaladun]

Some of the oldmins, myself included, may also be a bit biased due to seeing some very awful borers over the years....not to mention a time the logging fucked up with them that was hell on us mins.

Not to say this is a good reason to be against them, just to put our bias on the table as we've seen how bad they can go.

 

I'd personally like to see them as more dangerous so people don't want a brain controlling parasite in their head.

[Drakeven]

I sorta like how they're... Symbiotic in a way. Though I think the third idea is a good one, having random objectives like that. Some could be more dangerous than others, giving people pause on weather to accept borers. However, I always thought of them as one of the only antags that incentivize RP. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" Kinda thing. It's nice to have a midround that won't completely destroy you, but I certainly think adding some more chaotic fun into the mix would be okay too.

[Kinnikonnie]

On 8/19/2019 at 7:13 AM, necaladun said:

Some of the oldmins, myself included, may also be a bit biased due to seeing some very awful borers over the years....not to mention a time the logging fucked up with them that was hell on us mins.

Not to say this is a good reason to be against them, just to put our bias on the table as we've seen how bad they can go.

 

I'd personally like to see them as more dangerous so people don't want a brain controlling parasite in their head.

As a rather "new" player, what were the issues in the past?

[Taac]

2 hours ago, Drakeven said:

I sorta like how they're... Symbiotic in a way. Though I think the third idea is a good one, having random objectives like that. Some could be more dangerous than others, giving people pause on weather to accept borers. However, I always thought of them as one of the only antags that incentivize RP. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" Kinda thing. It's nice to have a midround that won't completely destroy you, but I certainly think adding some more chaotic fun into the mix would be okay too.

borers have 0 rp. it's just give meme chems to keep your host alive. also no one should want a brain slug in their head taking over their brain

[Tarhalindur]

33 minutes ago, Taac said:

borers have 0 rp. it's just give meme chems to keep your host alive. also no one should want a brain slug in their head taking over their brain

Frankly the same argument could be applied to jumping into a gateway which leads to a potentially deadly locale.

[Taac]

1 hour ago, Tarhalindur said:

Frankly the same argument could be applied to jumping into a gateway which leads to a potentially deadly locale.

not really because exploration is always dangerous so look at the real world. people still go to the arctic and people want to go to the moon and/or mars.
nobody in their right mind wants ringworms 

[Veterankyl]

So far, what I'm seeing is that most people want option three, adding mostly RP based goals to borers. Things such as getting the host to wear certain clothes, perform certain actions, or try to collect miscellaneous objects. It'd hopefully give borers more incentive to actually work with their host and do things aside from keeping them alive and reproducing. With borers listed as antags, they should have a reason to live up to that label in some way. Although they are mostly harmless (Except for the trolls and griefers),  I think it'd be good for them to have reasons to come into conflict with the crew so that they're not just outright invited into most people's heads.

[Taac]

33 minutes ago, Veterankyl said:

So far, what I'm seeing is that most people want option three, adding mostly RP based goals to borers. Things such as getting the host to wear certain clothes, perform certain actions, or try to collect miscellaneous objects. It'd hopefully give borers more incentive to actually work with their host and do things aside from keeping them alive and reproducing. With borers listed as antags, they should have a reason to live up to that label in some way. Although they are mostly harmless (Except for the trolls and griefers),  I think it'd be good for them to have reasons to come into conflict with the crew so that they're not just outright invited into most people's heads.

personally I want objective two. but perhaps you should add a poll

[necaladun]

7 hours ago, Kinnikonnie said:

As a rather "new" player, what were the issues in the past?

Before it was fixed, the logs wouldn't properly show who was in control, and finding the right person was hell. Messaging the borer/host mind was really difficult...

 

Before the community really got used to them, there was a mentality of using them to cause as much damage as possible - to the crew and the host body.

 

Honestly this is very rare these days, but I just have bad memories that bias me.

[Drakeven]

9 hours ago, Taac said:

borers have 0 rp. it's just give meme chems to keep your host alive. also no one should want a brain slug in their head taking over their brain

I've had plenty of good RPs with Borers.