Complaint regarding admin policies in general

[TheMaveran]

Admin(s) Key: @Denthamos
Your ckey (Byond username): Maveran
Your Discord name (if applicable): Wes #0410

Date(s) of incident: 9/23/19 around 11am central

Nature of complaint: Clarification

Brief description:

If the rules and punishment system are in place to minimize griefing and maximize player enjoyment, then why are they structured in a way that doesn't encourage player reform until AFTER they get punished? 

Full description of events:

During a round earlier in the day I had thrown two blue space bananas on the shuttle and @Denthamos promptly shut my character down for the rest of the round and told me that was not acceptable. This is not an attempt to contest his decision here nor an attempt to excuse my behavior. I told him that I understood and it wouldn't happen again. He then proceeded to tell me that I had several WARNINGS prior for behavior that warranted permanent bans. I had received none and I told him so, which he then explained they were admin notes and admins were not required to tell them to players. I asked him if he could tell me what the notes were for so I could correct my behavior. He said no and then stated that I shouldn't be surprised because other servers do it as well. And finally that all of my actions considered It wouldn't be unwarranted should I be permanently banned. I had no action taken against me but this where the real point of this complaint comes in.

If I had done several things in rounds before this where I "deserved" permanent bans then why wasn't I? If I was griefing the round for other players when why would an admin not tell me or take action? It isn't like I want to ruin the rounds for other players, and if I was it's not like I would be able to tell, as I have been pretty steadily accruing karma from playing regularly on the server. In my eyes I haven't been breaking any obvious rules and If I did I definitely did not intend do. 

I completely understand that the players are not "entitled" to anything, the server isn't a paid service after all. But if admins are mostly a group of players doing what is essentially unpaid labour because they love the server would it not be in their best interests to correct mistakes as it happens? Are admins not allowed to because of some rule by the heads? Or is it just percieved as a time issue where admins can't respond to everything? The latter makes some amount of sense because the server is quite large, but if they had the time to type out notes I don't see how they can't share it with the player and request they stop.

Alternatively, was this a subjective matter where the the details were subjective could be interpreted by different admins? I can recall a case much earlier where as an antag I had murderboned somebody whom I believed would help accomplish my objectives. Upon the trial admin speaking to me they explained why they thought my behavior was not okay, we both explained our sides and he had thought that I had a point but, suggested alternatives to my actions during the situation. I learned and have not repeated such behavior.

Meanwhile this situation happens. I DONT learn from my previous mistakes, and I learn I was on ban watch unknowingly. Should I just *know* that I was doing something wrong? But how could I when the finer lines of the rules are left ambiguous and different admins can have different opinions if situations. 

This is not a personal complaint of @Denthamos whom I believe did nothing he was not supposed to. My actions in that situation in which he warned me were, although not maliciously natured, still wrong. This is rather an attempt to get clarification and hope that a better system could get implented to help newer players(like myself) adapt to the role play environment of this server. I like the server and I simply hope that it gathers more players and improves, hence why I am typing this. I am sure other players may have been treated badly in a similar way and felt like they were treated un-justly. 

Afterall, A dog cannot be house broken if it is not punished in the act. As it turns out, humans aren't too different.

Any formatting or spelling errors are probably because this was typed on a phone so sorry about that. If I got any of the finer details or facts are wrong, please point them out. I have no intentions of misconstruing anything @Denthamos said.

[Denthamos]

So, going to clarify on the situation a bit as there was some confusion with the notes.

With the bans that were placed upon you for the jobbans they were spread out by job and not a command wide ban in a single note.   This led to you having a large amount of notes when really you should of only had two with them being your previous full permaban and your command wide jobban.

Sorry if this created some confusion with when I was talking to you.

 

Now on to notes we write down that people are not notified for.  Sometimes when we write down notes on players its maybe something that was noticed after we log dived from a previous round and the player is no longer in the server, the player logged out after we were investigating something, or maybe even its just a heads up to other admins regarding the behavior of a player and their actions.  Some notes may even be a note of good conduct.

[TheMaveran]

Thank you very much for the clarification, those job bans were all for one incident where I had to leave suddenly because of an emergency, so I was very confused when you said I had multiple warnings against me. I am assuming most of my rant doesn't mean too much then?

[Denthamos]

Yep, pretty much.  After that was noticed we cleared up your note history and consolidated all the jobbans that were individually placed on command roles into a single note so now you only have the two I mentioned now.

[Denthamos]

Given no response back and the previous response, filing this complain under resolved and closing.

 

:edit: Forgot to put here that this was closed with Neca's approval since the complaint was resolved and the player had no further questions/input on the topic.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Denthamos
Closing note