Antagonistic Magistrates

[Veloxi]

The term "antagonist" is a bit overloaded in the context of SS13, so I should clarify what I mean.

I don't mean that the Magistrate is playing an Antagonist role in the game (i.e.: cult, traitor, changeling, etc.)

By antagonistic, I mean the dictionary definition of the word:
 

Quote

 

adjective

1. acting in opposition; opposing, especially mutually.

2. hostile; unfriendly.

 

Last week, and this week, I've played a shift as Captain, where the Magistrate was actively antagonistic toward the Head of Security.

Now, I get that the Magistrate is the highest authority in Space Law on the station.
If the HoS says, "Send them to Perma!" and the Magistrate says, "Nope, not enough evidence." then the suspect goes free.

What I'm talking about though is a Magistrate who sits in the processing room and does this kind of armchair quarterback thing on everything the Head of Security is doing.

For example: "HoS fed too much holy water to the vampire, are you going to do something about it Captain, or do I need to fax CC?"
Note, the Vampire didn't die, the Magistrate was just concerned that the vampire was mistreated.

And, there is something to be said for corrective feedback.
For example, if the Magistrate had said (to the HoS, in person, not over the radio), "You only need 5u. Save some holy water for the rest of the vamps!"
That kind of feedback is a little odd coming from the Magistrate role, but still a 100% acceptable and constructive way to improve the performance of the HoS.

However, hearing "Punish 'em or I will fax CC", reads to me like, "Captain, your HoS is not perfect. Get one who never makes a mistake."

It's frustrating for me, because when I play Captain, I NEED security to heed the rulings of the Magistrate.
However, when the Magistrate undermines their own authority by interfering in the brig, my best advice is, "Ignore them, and let them fax CC if they want to."
Which in turn makes it difficult to say, five minutes later, "Yes, listen to the Magistrate's ruling on the prisoner, set them free from perma."

It's painful, because Security is so difficult to get right, and a Captain DOES NOT have the time to make sure Space Law is properly applied in every case.
The Magistrate is a really important role in that regard, and the reason that an antagonistic Magistrate bothers and disappoints me so much.

Sorry, salty rant over. Back to trying to find out why the Clown wants an "infinity stamp".

[Fursamie]

1 hour ago, Veloxi said:

 

Last week, and this week, I've played a shift as Captain, where the Magistrate was actively antagonistic toward the Head of Security.

Now, I get that the Magistrate is the highest authority in Space Law on the station.
If the HoS says, "Send them to Perma!" and the Magistrate says, "Nope, not enough evidence." then the suspect goes free.

What I'm talking about though is a Magistrate who sits in the processing room and does this kind of armchair quarterback thing on everything the Head of Security is doing.

For example: "HoS fed too much holy water to the vampire, are you going to do something about it Captain, or do I need to fax CC?"
Note, the Vampire didn't die, the Magistrate was just concerned that the vampire was mistreated.

This is the kind of problem with karma roles that hold as much power as the magistrate does. Things like these aren't stuff to get you noted or job banned (typically), and by itself is no issue. But the 'stress' that comes with playing security is that nothing comes by itself - if you have a traitor bombing the medbay, you also happen to have a changeling breaking into the armoury. If you have a permabrig prisoner getting broken out by an unknown EC, well, sucks to be you because there is a terror spider nest in the chapel, etc etc.. The magistrate being an asshat just because they want to or feel that they need to nitpick security is the worst, mostly because of the authority that they hold(not being in the traditional CoC, ultimate authority in space law unless it's an extreme where they are clearly wrong, etc).  

[TheYeetster]

I always ignore the magistrate, they are just so annoying... lol?

[MattTheFicus]

As someone with a LOT of Magistrate hours under my belt, I can 100% see issues with a few Magistrates doing things like this. However, on the flipside, Magistrates will always be in a sort of "antagonistic" spot with the HoS/Security. Their job is to quite literally take whatever charges the Security Staff is levying against another Crewmember and then hold them up to the light to see if they properly follow Space Law to the T. A Magistrates job is to be the one person on Station who can tell Security to kindly "hop the hell off" when they overstep their bounds and start sliding into Shitsec-land. 

Its a lot like real life lawyers, Security is going to HATE some Magistrates due to their interpretation of Space Law. For the most part, Space Law is VERY cut and dry with little room for interpretation. But does it feel like the Magistrate is being "antagonistic" to Security? Yeah, a lot of the times it will. But any good Magistrate worth their salt is going to question nearly everything an Officer says to make sure that the Law is being applied correctly.

 

Though, as always, if a Magistrate/NTR seems to be overstepping their bounds, do feel free to send a fax to CC about it or ahelp it. People abusing these roles WILL get punished for doing so as they are held to the same, if not higher, standard that the rest of Command is.

[Viz]

8 hours ago, TheYeetster said:

I always ignore the magistrate, they are just so annoying... lol?

Sounds like a good way to get in trouble considering as Security you are, in fact, meant to listen to what they have to say.

[Esenno]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:03 AM, Veloxi said:

However, hearing "Punish 'em or I will fax CC

Let them fax CC. Fax them yourself about the situation too. The worst thing CentComm will likely do is nothing.

 

[TheYeetster]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:03 AM, Woje said:

Sounds like a good way to get in trouble considering as Security you are, in fact, meant to listen to what they have to say.

sounds like something a magistrate would say...

Most of the time I'm planning on doing what the magistrate says anyway, and if they bring something up, its some small minute detail no one cares about and just a waste of time, because I have 4 other prisoners in processing to deal with.

Edited July 15, 2021 by TheYeetster

[Sonador]

Much like any legal profession, conduct has pretty much everything to do with your success. You'll never win, even if your case is watertight, if you're conducting yourself like an asshole.

 

Forgive me if I nerd out a bit, but my boyfriend is a hunky lawyer, so I know a little about this through osmosis. In court, your ability to succeed as an officer of the court (which is a major moving part of what the Magistrate is - they may more taste like a Judge, especially when presiding over a case, but in their day to day, they're as much a lawyer as they are an adjudicator, building a case AND applying law) has equal parts to do with not only having a sound case, but presenting it in a calm and collected manner, following the standards laid out for you to a T. Security, especially in round where they are busy enough to be making legitimate mistakes purely out of their workload and not just being bald, is probably not going to waste their time with you, obligated or not, if you're screeching as loudly and obstinately as the greytider they just brigged 15 minutes for minor trespass. As a Warden, if CC were to bother sending an NT agent over to lecture me for ignoring the magistrate, I'm pretty sure given they're operated by administrators, I could make a pretty good case out of "Look, I get this is an SOP violation, but the Magistrate is behaving as a gibbering fool while we're already overloaded - if I get the time, I'll crack open the space law book and review a sentence if he tells me to, but two of our guys just got nabbed by changelings and there's tiders everywhere, I just don't have the time for another space asshole right now." It works this way in the real world - if you violate the Rules of Civil Procedure, you risk your case, your license, and even being litigated by your client for blowing it - even if the case was unloseable otherwise. I can very easily see the burden of blame shifting from shitsec TO the Magistrate under the eyes of a very pissed Naval Officer if he's been a gibbering scrunt about it all shift, given ultimately it was his baldness that prevented security from changing course. "The state of security is ultimately your blame - you were charged with overseeing their legal processes and dropped the ball so completely that you've made it arguably worse. That's a problem I'm here to correct."

 

Conversely, the Magistrate should most certainly be feared by security if they're speaking softly and carrying a big stick. They have one of the single most terrible powers behind them - the NT Legal Division, a dark council of litigious corporate misers with one goal in mind: cull liability at any other reasonable cost. If, even during a chaotic round, a Magistrate pulls the Warden aside and mentions, "Warden, I appreciate you're busy, but when you get a moment, this prisoner's sentence is 10 minutes too long and he was already in processing for 5 minutes - please adjust the timer as soon as you can" and they get told directly to suck shit or are completely ignored, you can and should absolutely expect that within 30 minutes, the Warden's ID will be at the HoP Line for demotion. The Head of Security should get sweaty palms the moment one of his charges gets snitty with an amicable Magistrate. CentComm - again, as operated by admins - should absolutely be ready to be the sharpest sword sprung forth against a security team (and doubly so if Command does not support him) that ignores a competent and collected Magistrate, to the degree that the clearinghouse that comes from it risking the round for the crew. The Cyberiad is one station out of thousands - and if it means it burns to avoid a class action lawsuit from the unseen estates of  harmbatonged crewmen or a union they missed busting worth several times the installation itself, so be it. Security should be aware that playing dirty willfully to the degree of snubbing the guidance that is the robust Magistrate will come at a tangible cost - one not worth taking one minute to adjust a timer, release a prisoner, or otherwise whatever is prudent. A polite word to an offending security officer and the HoS, Command when that fails, and finally a fax to CC where appropriate should readily draw the dreaded, omnipotent, titanic spotlight of Trurl attention onto the Cyberiad.

 

Long story short - shitty Magistrates should fear Centcomm more than Security should fear a Magistrate.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Sonador