complaint about abydos

[Kenken244]

admins ckey: @Abydos

my ckey: @Kenken244

discord name: kenken244

date of complaint: the round in question ended at midnight on friday, december 13th in central time. the game in question mostly took place on the 12th. I don't know what that is in gmt, sorry.

nature of complaint: misconduct: abuse of powers

brief description: as a traitor quartermaster, CC informed command about my plans to declare independence as cargonia even though I had not yet undertaken any illegal activities or mentioned my plans anywhere on comms, only in personal communication with cargo techs. when the declaration was made, he immediately spawned in a CC special operations officer  in a room that was inaccessable from the rest of the station, before anyone had any chance to interact with command or security, and shot my character on sight, before I had any chance to even talk to him. when making my declaration I did mention that I was doing it because of an illegal arrest that was made against me previous in the round, invoking the clause in space law that allows subversion of the chain of command in cases of incompetence, and that I was open to negotiation with CC about replacement of command staff. as an antag I believe I have a right to RP my own objectives without a CC officer instantly teleporting in out of nowhere and killing me

full description of events: as a traitor QM for most of the round I did little more than talk about how great cargonia was and ask the hop to get me some more cargo techs, as I was rather low and it was hard to run cargo with so few. at one point I did make a joke about INTERdependence on the comms, mentioning that I would need some help from the rest of the station if I was to actually do my job properly. nobody seemed to interpret this in any way other than the way that I intended. apparently, at some point CC informed the captain that I was planning to declare independence, even though as far as I know I didn't even mention the word up until that point, and this ultimately resulted in my arrest, despite not having done anything illegal yet. at this point I had begun to order weapons, but as the station was on red alert, I was within my rights to do so, and even if I was not, that is just an SOP violation, not space law. 

when I returned to cargo I declared independence over comms, citing the illegal arrest I was subject to, stating that I was invoking the clause in space law allowing mutiny in the case of severe command incompetence (though I know it was not truly justified) and that I was open to negotiating with nanotransen about their command staff. at this point, several crew members joined us, and we walled off cargo completely and armed ourselves up in anticipation of retaliation. at no point did we venture beyond cargo, and we never had a chance to confront security aside from a small incident early on where I personally shooed the hop off with a laser. only a few minutes later, a CC officer teleported into cargo despite it being completely walled off from the outside, and shot me on sight, without giving me even a chance to speak. this ultimately resulted in the CC officer killing everyone in cargo after the cargo techs retaliated

I was hoping for at least some interesting RP or negotiations with other members on the station, but instead I was completely shut down at every turn and never had a chance to do anything

now, I understand that sending in a Special operations officer is the usual response to a declaration of independence by cargo. however I have several issues with the way that abydos conducted himself:

1: informing command of the fact that I was planning independence, despite not having given central command any reason to suspect such

2: teleporting inside of cargo despite it being walled off from the outside and having no outside access

3: shooting me on sight without giving me a chance to even RP a negotiation or even surrender

4: not giving me the chance to do any RP with the station or command before immediately shutting things down

now, I understand that cargonia is a bit of a meme, but nevertheless it is an important part of SS13 culture. as an antag I think I have the right to declare independence from the station. while I know this brings up issues about self antag, I have asked about this in the past and I have been told that as long as we are completely defensive and do not attempt to take control of the station, this is acceptable. thus I walled cargo off from the rest of the station and made sure to order energy guns, giving crew a non lethal option if they wished to use it. the CC officer was teleported in before cargo had attacked anyone. I really don't think that admin intervention at that point, and in the way in which it happened, was justified. as an antag I was trying to make the round more interesting and had the admins not intervened, I think it had potential to be fun for everyone. I know I am not alone in my complaints about how the admin conducted himself in this round

 

[Abydos]

 

Admin's version of events:

As the traitor QM with no hijack, but kill a Civilian, steal the brain of an engineer and escape alive, you had declared as you put it "Interdependence" and the HoP sent an announcement saying that he recognized your department as independent and told you to continue helping the station, while the Captain put it "Not going to do anything, going to let CC handle it." The Captain had then sent a centcom message informing us of some issues, to which I took the chance to respond and asking why he's not doing anything involving Cargo getting independence.

Security and the Captain did absolutely nothing, they arrested you once, didn't do anything other than that to clear up confusion and send CC a message saying you did "Interdependence" and it was a mistake. You THEN however, started ordering guns, e-magging all the crates, getting Cargo, Scientist and other people who merely felt like "Fuck command" to join "Cargonia" as you declared "Independence" and gave them the means to arm with guns.

At that point, I did spawn in as a SOO at Central Command and gave you a warning over supply channel that any attempt of independence or revolting will lead to you and others deaths. You and your Cargo team instead decided to taunt the SOO, so I went onto the station went through maints and broke down the window that one of your cargo team had made and walked into Cargo. I gave PLENTY of warnings for all of you to drop your guns, you instead decided to call me a "Spook" and trying to get people to shoot a Nanotrasen Central Command Officer.

At which point I shot you and put you into crit. I repeated the warning to others, some dropped their guns and others started to shoot me. Who were dealt with as it came along.

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1: informing command of the fact that I was planning independence, despite not having given central command any reason to suspect such

Quote

[2019-12-13T04:59:10] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (94,113,1): ATTENTION STATION: DUE TO A LACK OF CARGO TECHS, CARGONIA IS DECLARING INTERDEPENDENCE WITH THE STATION. IF YOU NEED SOMETHING, YOU BETTER EXPECT TO HELP OUT WITH IT. I CAN'T RUN THIS STATION BY MYSELF

[2019-12-13T05:14:17] SAY: Kam Ransako (113,136,1): CentComm isn't happy about the HoP allowing Cargonia to declare independence -- I left it alone since the AI being stolen was more of a pressing issue at the time, but.. CentComm wants to know why the HoP allowed Cargonia to declare independence

 

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2: teleporting inside of cargo despite it being walled off from the outside and having no outside access

As stated before, I took the ferry shuttle from CC to the station and went in through maints and broke open a window that one of your cargo techs used with an RCD. If I even wanted too, I could of just blasted one of the doors open as I have a pulse gun that instantly destroy walls, or even teleported in as CC has an upgraded teleporter that allows teleportation to just about anywhere on the station.

Quote

3: shooting me on sight without giving me a chance to even RP a negotiation or even surrender

Quote

[2019-12-13T05:17:29] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): hey miner

[2019-12-13T05:17:35] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): are you prepared to defend cargonia?

[2019-12-13T05:20:57] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (88,119,1): alright, all cargonians to cargonia!

<Security temporarily arrested him to search and talk to him>

[2019-12-13T05:29:59] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (88,119,1): cargo is back up and running, all cargonians please return to cargo

[2019-12-13T05:33:18] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (88,119,1): let's blow this joint

[2019-12-13T05:33:21] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (88,119,1): we have our ways

[2019-12-13T05:33:38] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): come on, lets unload these crates

[2019-12-13T05:35:01] GAME: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) purchased Cryptographic Sequencer.

[2019-12-13T05:35:39] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (73,118,1): have fun

[2019-12-13T05:38:46] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (83,122,1): ATTENTION STATION: DUE TO THE UNLAWFUL AND UNWARRANTED ARREST OF THE QUARTERMASTER PRVIOUSLY: CARGONIA IS INVOKING THE INCOMPETENCE OF COMMAND CLAUSE AND DECLARING INDEPENDENCE FROM THE STATION ALL WHO ARE EQUALLY UNSATISFIED WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF COMMAND ARE INVITED TO COME TO CARGONIA TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. AND IF NANOTRANSEN IS LISTENING: WE ARE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE FOR MORE COMPETENT COMMAND STAFF

[2019-12-13T05:39:11] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (89,89,2): I'm sorry, that just hearded like "Please come down to the station and kill all of us".

[2019-12-13T05:39:43] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (89,89,2): If I come down to the station and find a single cargo armed with your so called "Independence" quartermaster, you and all of cargo is dead.

[2019-12-13T05:40:40] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (89,89,2): So I tell the station why is the HoP declaring independence for Cargo. Now Cargo is literally doing independence.

[2019-12-13T05:40:45] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (89,89,2): What the fuck were you and security doing Captain?

[2019-12-13T05:41:10] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,118,1): all true cargonians return to the station and defend our homeland, that includes you miners

[2019-12-13T05:41:15] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (89,118,1): we have guns

[2019-12-13T05:42:02] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Ten seconds to drop everything and leave.

[2019-12-13T05:42:02] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,118,1): get ready!

[2019-12-13T05:42:08] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Ten.

[2019-12-13T05:42:09] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (80,120,1): they are coming!

[2019-12-13T05:42:11] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Nine.

[2019-12-13T05:42:13] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Eight.

[2019-12-13T05:42:14] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (82,120,1): no u

[2019-12-13T05:42:15] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Seven.

[2019-12-13T05:42:17] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Six.

[2019-12-13T05:42:19] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Five.

[2019-12-13T05:42:22] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Four.

[2019-12-13T05:42:24] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Three.

[2019-12-13T05:42:26] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,124,1): Two.

[2019-12-13T05:42:28] SAY: abydos2/(Jeneta Milosm) (82,123,1): One.

 

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

4: not giving me the chance to do any RP with the station or command before immediately shutting things down

Might have something to do with you as a traitor without hijacking, ordering a bunch of lethal weapons, arming up a bunch of people on the station for no reason other than "I can" and ordering people to shoot security or command on sight. You gave scientists, civilians, people who would shoot security on sight with guns and then complained that you weren't allowed to do roleplay. 

Quote

made sure to order energy guns, giving crew a non lethal option if they wished to use it.

You ordered one crate of energy guns, every other crate you ordered was combat shotguns and assault rifles.

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

as an antag I was trying to make the round more interesting and had the admins not intervened, I think it had potential to be fun for everyone

 

Admin's reasoning for actions:

All of the above

Acknowledgement of wrongdoing or disputing of:

There isn't any wrongdoing here, you didn't have hijack nor any objective to do what you did. You ordered guns and declared a full department independent and offering anyone outside of cargo the chance to join and gain guns, which they did. You were ordered a bunch of times and given plenty of warnings to stop what you were doing. You didn't and paid the price. Central Command does not allow departments declaring independence on their station and trying to enforce demands upon them.

[Kenken244]

if you read more carefully, I declared INTER dependence in your first quote, not independence. it was a joke, but also a serious complaint about the lack of cargo techs. while the hop decided to grant us independence, I did not acknowledge it because I did not ask for independence and he doesn't have the right to grant it in any case.  at no point did I order people to shoot command or security on sight. we armed ourselves because the typical response from the station is to come in and arrest or shoot everyone, so we needed armaments to have a secure negotiating position. you gave us no option to negotiate, instead simply stated that you were going to kill us all. you gave security a grand total of FOUR minutes to deal with this, before deciding to handle it yourself. that doesn't allow ANYONE the chance to deal with it ICly

I was not attempting to hijack the station, simply hold out in cargo after declaring independence. player antags are allowed to come up with their own objectives if they want to. it was not my intention to kill ANYONE, in fact the only people who died here were killed by the admin. I made sure that nobody would leave cargo with their guns, so that they wouldn't go around shooting security at random, only if they attempted to storm cargo.

you did not give us even the opprotunity to show that we could have any amount of RP, nobody on the crew did any rule-breaking actions, you simply showed up and shot us all because we "might" have self antagged

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kenken244

[Abydos]

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

if you read more carefully, I declared INTER dependence in your first quote, not independence. it was a joke, but also a serious complaint about the lack of cargo techs

And the HoP sent a desk announcement from his station saying he recognizes your independence and is granting you it, which is enough to get CC's attention on why the HoP and to an existent the Captain is allowed this to happen.

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

at no point did I order people to shoot command or security on sight

Quote

[2019-12-13T04:59:10] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (94,113,1): ATTENTION STATION: DUE TO A LACK OF CARGO TECHS, CARGONIA IS DECLARING INTERDEPENDENCE WITH THE STATION. IF YOU NEED SOMETHING, YOU BETTER EXPECT TO HELP OUT WITH IT. I CAN'T RUN THIS STATION BY MYSELF

[2019-12-13T05:08:10] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): I am sick of this station

[2019-12-13T05:08:15] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): we need to declare independence

[2019-12-13T05:08:25] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): once that gets shipped out, we should have enough money

[2019-12-13T05:08:34] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): then we can order guns

[2019-12-13T05:08:45] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): don't worry about opening the crate, I can handle that

[2019-12-13T05:08:57] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (76,118,1): I have special tools

[2019-12-13T05:13:08] WHISPER: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (88,119,1): then ssssee if they will help uss defend cargonia

[2019-12-13T05:17:29] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): hey miner

[2019-12-13T05:17:35] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): are you prepared to defend cargonia?

<Other logs as shown above>

[2019-12-13T05:39:02] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,118,1): do you want to join us?

[2019-12-13T05:39:20] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,119,1): climb on the table if you want to join

[2019-12-13T05:39:32] ATTACK: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken)(ANTAG)(89,118,1) against MIKE-121 (91,117,1): Shot with a /obj/item/projectile/beam/laser

[2019-12-13T05:39:33] ATTACK: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken)(ANTAG)(89,118,1) against MIKE-121 (92,117,1): Shot with a /obj/item/projectile/beam/laser

[2019-12-13T05:40:06] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,120,1): climb over the table to join cargonia

[2019-12-13T05:41:10] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,118,1): all true cargonians return to the station and defend our homeland, that includes you miners

[2019-12-13T05:41:12] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (87,118,1): climb over the table

[2019-12-13T05:41:15] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (89,118,1): we have guns

[2019-12-13T05:41:46] SAY: Kenken244/(Ken-the-Ken) (89,118,1): anyone can join except sec and comdom

The HoP came by and told you to stop, and you just wordlessly shot him instead. That's not roleplay, that's you shooting Command and encouraging others to do the same.

 

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

so we needed armaments to have a secure negotiating position.

Which is a sure enough way to get CC's attention and send in a person to deal with you. You ignored their orders to disarm.
 

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They always take their job very seriously, and failure to obey their commands can result in the termination of one's contract and life.

If a Central Command official appears physically on the Cyberiad, then it is likely either because of misconduct by the Cyberiad's command staff, or because of a special situation that needs careful handling.

 

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

You gave security a grand total of FOUR minutes to deal with this, before deciding to handle it yourself.

Because most of security were dead and handling other traitors who actually had hijack and other objectives. They were streched out and were in no way or position to deal with Cargo throwing guns out of windows and telling people to defend Cargo.

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

I was not attempting to hijack the station, simply hold out in cargo after declaring independence. player antags are allowed to come up with their own objectives if they want to.

No, they are not.

Quote

Remember the goal of an Antagonist is to make the round exciting, fun, and dangerous, within limits. You should make an effort to add to the round, as opposed to simply completing your objectives and carrying on normally.

The role of the Antagonist may pit you against the station. However, this is not grounds for murderboning the entire crew if your objective is to steal a jetpack, as you must work towards your objectives, not general mayhem. You may, however, antagonize/murder specific people who will help you complete your objective or who are hindering you from completing said objective. You are also permitted to freely defend yourself with lethal force if another player attempts to capture/hinder you;

 

1 hour ago, Kenken244 said:

I made sure that nobody would leave cargo with their guns, so that they wouldn't go around shooting security at random, only if they attempted to storm cargo.

You made no such attempt as there were over 8 people armed with guns, some of which had indeed left cargo with them, one of them I had to hunt down merely because they felt like self-antagging.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Abydos

[necaladun]

This to me is enough reason for CC to start to intervene with SOO's and the like. Such communications can be seen to be monitored. When you say

On 12/14/2019 at 5:47 AM, Kenken244 said:

1: informing command of the fact that I was planning independence, despite not having given central command any reason to suspect such

It seems they were already informed, and this was a response to the HoP granting independence. 

When it comes to:

Quote

2: teleporting inside of cargo despite it being walled off from the outside and having no outside access

this seems clarified with

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I took the ferry shuttle from CC to the station and went in through maints and broke open a window that one of your cargo techs used with an RCD.

For the following:

Quote

3: shooting me on sight without giving me a chance to even RP a negotiation or even surrender

it appears the logs showing a countdown being given to drop your gun shows this as an outright lie. You even responded "no u" to this, which doesn't really show much of an attempt to RP well at all to me.

This is a pretty serious point here, as this is an outright lie that is easily disproven. I'm not sure what the point of even saying this is. This ties into:

On 12/14/2019 at 5:47 AM, Kenken244 said:

not giving me the chance to do any RP with the station or command before immediately shutting things down

The logs showing you did RP with that station and command. Everything you did - talking about inter and independence, ordering guns, etc, is RP. 

I'll take this as exaggeration however, as opposed to an outright lie. None the less, there was plenty of RP (Although "no u" isn't exactly the standard of RP I like to see).

 

Abydos's other points seem quite valid to me here - being an antag does not mean you should arm up an entire department and incite mutiny. There are limits to the "other objectives" you should assign yourself, and these need to be justified. Stealing the Chef's hat is one thing, murdering other people or inciting mutiny of a whole department is a level of destruction beyond that which one antag should be doing. Ahelping for permission for such wide ranging things is required. 

 

 

In general this admin complaint is either outright false, or incredibly exaggerated. RP was had, chances were given, it just didn't go the way you want. Other crew did go outside cargo with said weapons, etc, etc.

The story of the station for the round might not always go your way - especially if you decide to butt heads with NT, who tend to use "death squads" as a negotiating tactic for mutiny. This does not mean an admin is abusing their power at all.

Honestly this seems like a fun event and story of a failed attempt at mutiny. Had you chosen to drop your guns and negotiate, it might have ended very differently. Things not going the way you want them however is not cause for a valid admin complaint, and lying about the events looks very, very poor.

 

This complaint is without merit, innaccurate, and resolved.