Toko's Super Duper Bar Redesign Suggestion!

[Octus]

Hey hey, people, Toko here.

The Suggestion

For the past couple of months playing this game one of my favorite jobs to play is bartender. Not only do you get to customize your bar and show your creative power to the crew, but you also get to RP and serve drinks to your crew mates and with that comes a good amount of RP which I enjoy doing. But lately, I've been having opinions on the current bar and believe the one we have is not the most optimal and can be improved with a rework or makeover. Why? because I personally believe that the bar can use a new design, my main gripe with the bar is that I would like to encourage a cooperative relationship between the Chef and the Bartender. The Chef can produce meals leave them at the counter while the Bartender can serve drinks and foods to patrons who desire them. Not only do I find this idea fun as if you were playing something similar to running a restaurant/cafe but it would encourage role-play and teamwork. The Chef and Bartender would be helping each other in serving the crew and the Patrons can enjoy food and drinks at the same time. As of right now, the current bar is isolated from the chef's area and you only really ever see Chefs/Bartenders work together rarely which is disappointing

The Ideas

I've composed 4 different bar designs on my own personal server in my own free time. These bar designs all have the same style (Bar next to the kitchen), but each having different designs and layouts. I wanted multiple designs to see which one the community would like more, some people like wooden flooring and carpet, while some like basic metal tiles. Some people like cramped and simple bars for more space to build while others want Wider bars with room to move around but less area to build. Either way, I hope my designs are liked by someone and if you like or don't like any of the ideas id like to hear why, maybe we can agree, maybe we can disagree. Discourse is always healthy and welcoming. 

 

I've made the designs simple, yet they can always be improved. Some bartenders are not really creative nor want to improve their bar in the round so the bar is already set to go. But if bartenders who wanted to upgrade their bar (Add comfy sofas, glass tables, change the flooring) want to do so, they can. Both designs (like I've said previously) have different layouts for the bartender to use. The top row sets have the bar inside the bartender's workplace while the other sets have the bar in between the kitchen and bar. One is more orientated to the bartender having access to the drinks machines while the other allows both the Chef to have access to the drink machine as well without leaving the kitchen. I prefer the top 2 as they are a lot more cramped but allow more building space for any remodels or ideas you want to build and because the bar is a one-person job and you really don't need much space.

Reasoning and Crew Feedback

Live I've said earlier, this design is to encourage a cooperative relationship between the Bartender and Chef, teamwork and RPing is always great and I personally think one where you get to run a restaurant/cafe is always great and refreshing to play.  I've gotten countless compliments on my bar designs from players on the server (Kar-ski, Tailiik, even some Admins like Abydoss have seen the design and posted it on the screenshot thread which I'm flattered about) and many other players have given their compliments, I have yet to receive a complaint or angry chat about the bar rework (this thread might change that) but I do believe the player base likes my design over the current one. I end up getting massive Karma every time I run this bar and this is not a reason to flex my Karma but more of a reason to show how much people love the creativity of it as evidence by every time I play.

Criticisms

Now with every opinion a fallacy is born, id like to state some criticism I've been thinking about my own bar design and hopefully, I can predict these before they are brought to light, I obviously cannot cover every criticism or predict it but I will try my best to put the ones I think to rest.

What about the Bartenders Backroom? It's not connected to the bar! 

Personally, I NEVER use the backroom unless either:

A - Being an Antag and doing my evil shit in privacy, (Which I can still do even if the bar is disconnected from the back room.)

B - Storing stuff and other crap in there, which I commonly do but honestly shouldn't really affect you in any way as you can still see the door from your bar if anyone tries to break in.

My design turns the backroom into what it really feels like, a Bartenders closet. Stuff is stored in there but 80% of the time you will be running the bar, not hiding back there (unless you're antaging) and any machines that you need can easily be brought to the new bar. 

What if the Chef and Bartender dislike/hate working with each other.

That is why I personally like the top row designs over the bottom. Sometimes Bartenders and Chefs cant get along and that's ok. If the chef wants to serve foods without using the bar they can use the central primary hallway window to serve food there. The bartender should not be affected by this that much unless he was planning on serving food, he can still serve drinks without food but the whole purpose of the design was to encourage symbiosis relationship between the 2. Either way if they don't want to work with each other, I recommend top row designs as they are more flexible depending on the situation.

Those are really the 2 main criticism I've thought about making this thread and I'm sure more will come from you, the reader. So please speak your mind about it. Id love to hear it!

Difficulty Implementing This

So ill be completely honest, I have no idea how changing the map design or coding any of this in (if it even has to do anything with coding) works. I won't say if it's easy or hard because that would ignorant of me to say. But I would like to hear from the Coders (or whoever does the work on map design) would give their 2 cents on this idea. As I would like to know if the idea I'm trying to suggest is difficult or just a simple quick hour of work. Otherwise if it is easy to implement I don't see a problem, if its difficult I would like to hear about and give my thoughts on it.

Final Thoughts

I'm happy with how this thread was made and how much work I've put into it. I personally want to thank anyone who complimented my bar/gave me the idea to make this thread. I hope any of the bar designs I suggest gets implemented in because I worked hard on this thread and my passion for the Bartender job really shows in-game and out of the game. Overall please discuss and leave any feedback or thoughts about it. All are welcome!

Edited March 31, 2020 by Octus

[Carthusia]

I would love to see this, it's so much more entertaining to play as the chef, when the bartenders area is right there and everyone can interact with each other.

[Kyet]

A few thoughts:

• How does the chef leave the kitchen without having to go through the bar windoor which they may not have access to?
• If this was to be a permanent map change, why not move the bar backroom east a bit so it can be connected to the north end of the area behind the bar counter?
• Are the slot machines placed the way they are because that's what you really want? Or just because you can't move them?
• A bit of a tangent, but it would be really nice if slot machines could be deconstructed, or at least moved, without the need for adminbus.
• The positioning of vents and scrubbers is pretty suboptimal. If this was to be a permanent map change they should be positioned in a dice-like pattern to make best use of their range.
• The light switch next to the slot machines needs to be moved. Possibly the fire alarm as well.
• Is the ATM on the bottom right usable in that position?
• I feel like it would be a good idea to place a one-tile wall north of the bar stools so as to discourage people from running through the line of bar stools and position-swapping with bar patrons.

[Octus]

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• How does the chef leave the kitchen without having to go through the bar windoor which they may not have access to?

Usually what I like to do is give access to both the Chef and Bartender to the Windoor so that they can both leave and enter if they like. Of course one flaw I will admit is that since the bar is basically built next to the chefs door the chef always has to leave through the bar, usually tho its not much of an issue because the chef will spend a majority of his time cooking and if he ever needs to leave he can walk out, usually its quick as well.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• If this was to be a permanent map change, why not move the bar backroom east a bit so it can be connected to the north end of the area behind the bar counter?

An idea ive been thinking about too as well, honestly I would like to build the Bar's backroom in the north section of where the bar is place but the problem is that the Chefs freezer is there, I could probably design an idea around what you've said and change it up a bit. Ill have to make a room which basically is side by side with the chefs freezer but it shouldn't be too much of a problem to design. (I hope lmao) just have to reroute the maint tunnel to where the old backroom is and build a space for the room. Ill get back on this later.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• Are the slot machines placed the way they are because that's what you really want? Or just because you can't move them?

I left the slot machines there because I have only 2 options with them. 1st one is destroying the damn thing because I cant move it at all, and 2nd is needing to ahelp to remove them. they are placed there because I sadly cannot move them BUT if I had the opportunity to do so I would.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• A bit of a tangent, but it would be really nice if slot machines could be deconstructed, or at least moved, without the need for adminbus.

100% agree with this statement.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• The positioning of vents and scrubbers is pretty suboptimal. If this was to be a permanent map change they should be positioned in a dice-like pattern to make best use of their range.

Of course! I really dont know much about Atmos and gas physics in this game but if what your saying is correct I do agree we should re arrange the positioning of the scrubbers/vents. This is something I will admit am not extremely knowledgeable of so I would like to leave this opinion to someone who knows what their talking about. But yes, I do agree re positiong for the vents/scrubbers for optimal preformence would be good.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• The light switch next to the slot machines needs to be moved. Possibly the fire alarm as well.

I dont really see much of a problem with the light next to the slot machines, but the fire alarms yes I will agree with. The amount of times people passing through maints or the hallway just go walk in real quick, turn on the alarm and run out grinds my gears. I think re positing deep closer into the bar so people cant run in and out just to troll would be something I agree with.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• Is the ATM on the bottom right usable in that position?

I actually ended up just deleting that wall when I was making the designs, so no the ATM is not usable there BUT I think it would be a neat idea to put a new one inside the bar so people can withdraw money, and even then their is an ATM a tile away from the one that I deleted outside in the main hallway.

51 minutes ago, Kyet said:

 

• I feel like it would be a good idea to place a one-tile wall north of the bar stools so as to discourage people from running through the line of bar stools and position-swapping with bar patrons.

I agree! I actually just think we should move the maint door 1 tile to the left in order to solve that issue but your idea works as well. Either way this criticism is something that can be fixed easily. Just swap the Bar APC with the maint door and the problem should be fixed!

Overall fair and very well thought criticisms and ideas. Ill get back to the ones you've listed in a later post. I appreciate the feedback.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Octus
typos

[Octus]

Alright, I took @Kyet criticism and suggestions and decided to make a new style bar. This one is much different then the last 4 I made due to the fact that I had to move the entire backroom east and co nnect it with the bar, but I like how it came out. Let me show and tell you about this new design. Also with the help of create object and object possession I was able to move most of the things I needed, (except the APC which I accidentally deleted RIP)

So the first hard suggestion Kyet gave me was to connect the back room with the bar, this process took me the longest to design but after a lot of thinking I ended up going with this design. The backroom can be accessed similarly to the current bar design we currently have. The bartender can enter the back room and has an exit in the maint door. All his belongings have been brought over and it is the EXACT same size as our current backroom (3x4) I've also moved the beacon for delivery's so that packages can be delivered from maint.

Secondly, with me learning what possession does (awesome) I managed to simply move the slot machines to the north end of the bar, maybe someday the ability to move the slot machines will be available. But for now, I think the current positioning is fine.

Thirdly,  I moved the vents and scrubbers. Like I've said previously I don't really know much about atmos in this game or what is optimal so if anyone has any suggestions on what position the scrubbers or vents would look better I would like it. Kyet told me a dice like pattern but I honestly don't understand what that means because like I said, I'm not good at Atmos.

Fourth, moved the light switch into the bar backroom so the bartender can have control of lighting, moved the fire alarms deeper into the bar so people cant turn em on and run out. Also, I misread your post thinking you were talking about the light source and NOT the light switch, which I agree with. Move the light switch where only the bartender can change lightings.

Fifth,  I've moved the ATM to a location more convenient and useful, right next to the bar! If Patrons want to tip the bartender or chef they can simply walk over to the ATM and withdraw cash for donations. A great spot I personally think but I'm open to any other places it can be placed.

And lastly,  I've moved the entrance to the maint tunnel of the bar to the far left of the bar. This way bar patrons will not be disturbed while sitting at the bar, and traffic should flow well in this new design. The moving of the maint tunnel made the old bar backroom a 2-way opening, one that leads to the bar and one that leads to dorms area. (and yes wires and pipes are disconnected, the finished design will obviously connect to any new vents/scrubbers)

Some notes id like to point out is that due to moving the backroom the bar is a little smaller and was something new I had to work with, but I personally feel I worked well with the situation I was given. I also had to shrink the chef's freezer by one wall in order to make the backroom fit and look nice, this really shouldn't affect the chef that all since 85% of the time he will be cooking in the kitchen and the kitchen is unaffected but it is something to inform about. I've also added warning lines to the bar counter as a way to designate what is off-limits to rowdy patrons and crossing the line will result in an angry barman with a double-barrel shotgun. and lastly criticism and suggestions. This new design is something I have never used in a shift so I would like to hear any criticism about this current bar design. All suggestions and constructive criticism as always are welcomed and I try to use those ideas to improve the bar. Overall I like this design!

Thanks to Kyet for the suggestions. hopefully my ideas make it to the game.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Octus

[Octus]

The pull request for this suggestion is here if anyone who saw this thread wants to the see the current progress were working on.

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/13252

[BryanR]

As someone who plays chef rather regularly I like this design. Though more for the added security that people aren't hacking into the friggen kitchen without first facing a bartender and his shotgun.

I suppose the only real complaint I have is that it gets rid of the cozy little nook in back with the comfy chairs, bronze ash tray, and table for a more intimate out of the way gathering.

Also a tip for building while on an active server, Admins use Build Mode under the event tab. The copy/paste function usually how I move the slot machines before reverting back to Basic Build and deleting the originals instead of outright possessing them.

[liran424]

looks cool

[PacifistDalek]

I like this a lot. More of a random thought than an actual suggestion, what about extending the bar fully north to the dorms? Gives extra room for that cozy nook, and having a direct path between the dorms and the bar without entering maintenance would be aesthetically nice. It's already a directish path, so i don't see it really changing the flow of traffic that much (plus the dorms aren't the busiest part of the station already, so this could encourage more travel that way. Only thing I could see going against it would be that it cuts down a teensy bit on maintenance pathing to the dorms for antags, but they have a door just to the right above the kitchen...