Abydos2: Admin incorrectness prompts warning

[Jed D`Lagged]

Admin(s) Key: Abydos2
Your ckey : FleshyHuman

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): About 01:00 27th June 2020

Nature of complaint: clarification required, misapplication of rules

Brief description:

Warned by an Admin for doing nothing serious and for something I don't do

Full description of events:

Received the following chat with an admin:

-----------------------------

Abydos2: Hi there, do you care to explain on why you are powergaming?
FleshyHuman: Sorry... what?
Abydos2: Why you are powergaming.
FleshyHuman: Sorry, can you explain further?
Abydos2: Everytime we've seen you as HoP, Captain or a member of command, you constantly raid medical for medical gear, and then start trying to order foam shotguns, filled with riot shot, to keep on yourself or on the bridge.
Abydos2: You've done this multiple rounds, and we've taken notice of it.
FleshyHuman: Y... yeah.... sorry, why is this a problem? And ...it's foam shotguns, for the bridge... like... and you say I'm power gaming? That ... doesn't make sense to me. It's FOAM, not REAL.  
Abydos2: Because you're powergaming and it's against the rules, you're amassing game mechanics in your favor.
Abydos2: So you are receiving a warning and told to stop.

-------------------------------

 

Firstly, by "raid medical for medical gear" he means I fill a belt I get from botany with a hypo, epi, saline, menders and nanomed pills, as HOP who has complete access to all of this.

Secondly, yes, when the shift is slow I order "Foam Force" shotguns for myself and the bridge, and print out boxes of darts to go along with them. I have NEVER, NOT ONCE, EVER put riot shot into these shotguns. Ever. So to call it powergaming makes no sense.

 

If any of the above is worthy of a warning, then over half of the server would deserve a ban. If these warnings are anything official, can I get it removed?

[Abydos]

You've been noticed doing 3 things always as HoP or as any member of command:

1) You immediately rush Cargo, steal their toolbelt, acquire all tools and keep them on you.

2) You immediately rush medical, steal a medical belt and fill it full of medical gear. Medical scanner, autoburn, autobrute, epine bottle, hypospray, 5 salbuta pills, 5 mannitol pills, 3 mutadon pills and other things. You basically emptied a vendor for yourself.

3) You then went to cargo and started ordering foam shotguns.. as "Emergency bridge supplies".. and since foam does absolutely nothing on anyone, it was quite clear you were plan on filling them up with riot.

And you've done this across multiple rounds.

 

Quote

Regarding "Powergaming":

The Server Staff retain the right to ask you to tone down what is perceived as being excessive powergaming that causes noticeable disruption to the rest of the playerbase. Powergaming is readily defined as the prioritization of amassing mechanical advantages for yourself, to the detriment of the enjoyment of others or the creation of interesting RP situations, and is to be avoided in favor of methods that both encourage and promote the fun of all parties involved in interactions where such moderation is possible.

 

[Jed D`Lagged]

You are completely wrong.

Firstly, the only member of command I play as is HOP, so to say I do this as other members of command indicates that you're lacking awareness of what you say.

Secondly, I do not immediately rush cargo. I set myself up as hop first, which takes about five minutes. So once again, you are lacking awareness of what you are talking about.

Thirdly, I do not immediately rush medical and fill it with medical gear. I do it when I get a chance when my line is empty. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Fourthly, I order the FOAM FORCE shotguns WHEN IT IS QUIET. The only thing you are correct about is that, yes THEY DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON ANYONE, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I BUY THEM. And then you say "it was quite clear you were plan on filling them up with riot", so clearly you have never seen me do it, which is strange because you make yourself sound so sure about everything else you've said in which you are wrong.

 

You need to be fired from this position immediately.

[necaladun]

Hi there,

Regardless whether or not you're HoP or Captain, really the only member of command who should be stocking up on medical supplies is the CMO. Without any reason to suspect it's needed, amassing supplies (Especially ones needed by medbay) is considered powergaming. As the HoP, you should be assuming the biggest injury that will be occuring is papercuts - having enough supplies on you to deal with gunshots is excessive and should be left to medbay, unless there are nuke ops or terror spiders, etc, sighted on the station. 

Medbay is not your department either, and having access does not entitle you to take their supplies - the same goes for security, even though you have access there. Department tools are meant to be used by the department, not as backups for the HoP, whose job should mainly involve paper-pushing.

A toolbelt is also unnecessary for the job at hand usually, although if you want to do renovations or the like on your office it's quite understandable. Amassing such things "just in case" is indeed powergaming - most office workers don't keep emergency tools around in case the elevator breaks down - they call engineering.

The immediacy (5 minutes vs immediately or when your line is empty) is not really the issue here. I'll happily accept that Aby was wrong there, but focusing on that seems to be missing the point.

The foam force shotguns are fine to have, although loading them with riot darts would absolutely be a problem. With riot darts in them, they are indeed dangerous weapons. Considering the other forms of amassing power, it isn't a huge leap to believe that was the intent, hence the warning about those.

This is absolutely not something that means Abydos means to be fired immediately. Abydos was quite correct to tell you to knock off this amassing of items. Myself, Abydos, and other admins have double checked the logs and seen that indeed the shotguns were foam force ones without riot darts loaded - that is the only issue I see here, which is a simple mistake that could have easily been cleared up, and was with us double checking.

I have since been informed that despite the warning, you have chosen to ignore it and continue doing so, and Kyet has issued a jobban for this. I personally would have issued a full ban for ignoring explicit instructions from an admin, but Kyet has decided to be more merciful. An appeal will be necessary to lift those job bans. 

 

With all that in mind, apart from the minor issue about the riot darts, this complaint has no merit and certainly won't result in immediate termination. I highly advise you listen to the admins instructions in future, and play roles as they're intended without attempting to fill in for others.

[necaladun]

I'll leave this open for awhile so any questions about to what extents or specifics would/wouldn't be allowed can be answered.

[Jed D`Lagged]

Hi necaladun

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

 

Firstly, I understand the Jobban. I was jobbanned after I was warned, and I ignored the warning. This makes sense. I'll leave my argument towards this somewhere else. However that's not what I'd like to talk about, it's the original warning that is my main concern.

 

Something I said in my original post.

 

6 hours ago, Jed D`Lagged said:

If any of the above is worthy of a warning, then over half of the server would deserve a ban

Primary Storage is completely dry after 60 seconds into the shift. Are any of these people given warnings?

The non-antag Chemists that brings a bunch of grenades onto the shuttle just to use them when the round ends. What's their IC justification? Are they all given warnings too?

The Blueshields that always give themselves AA with the Captain's spare, are they given warnings?

The RD Wandering around with a Bag of Holding full of Energy weapons, just 'cause. How many warnings there?

 

We've both played the game, and we both know I could go on. I had a belt of medical supplies. How does this make sense?

 

 

[necaladun]

Hey there, sorry about the delay in replying here, IRL has been a bit nuts.

Primary tool storage is there for assistants to equip themselves with various tools to assist/greytide with, as well as things for IPCs to repair themselves, supplies for projects people want, etc. People grabbing things from there is not the same at all as a command member equipping themselves with a full range of healing gear.

It is very rare that it is completely dry 60 seconds into the shift.

People are allowed to bring things for round end. ICly it can be considered a side project that was given to CC at the end of the shift for their use, hopefully with a pay bonus/transfer to weapons research.

If a blueshield is given the captain's spare, they already have all access. This is done in direct relation to their job generally - being able to follow someone with all access generally requires all access.

RD's are not permitted to carry weaponry, hence it being locked up with armoury access required. If the warden/hos/captain is giving out weapons to command "just 'cause" then there generally is an issue with multiple people. Any Captain/security worth their salt should not be handing out lethal weapons "just 'cause". This is at least related to their job - the research and manufacture of weapons.

 

One of the ways to think about this is in a tragedy of the commons kind of sense - imagine if everyone acted the way you did, and how that would be for antags.