Perma Escape attempt/Escape to be added/clarified in Legal SOP and Space Law

[Kyet]

25 minutes ago, Accinator50 said:

If an EoC (who is supposed to be permad) was killed in action and escapes after beeing cloned in medbay is he KoS or not? Because he escapes the permanent sentence but wasn't processed yet.

 

And if an EoC died in perma and manages to escape after beeing cloned are they KoS because they managed to escape their permanent sentence and already were processed?

If someone is legally issued a perma sentence (ie: sec record updated, put in perma) and then they escape, via any means, the "detained, executed or killed on sight at the discretion of security" applies.

If someone is not legally issued a perma sentence (ie: killed in combat with sec before being sentenced) then it does not apply. However, in that situation, if the person is cloned, they can be sentenced for any crime they can be proven to have committed prior to their death. If for example they murdered a sec officer in the fight, they can be re-executed for that.

[EmilyFontaine]

2 hours ago, Kyet said:

Space law updated: https://www.paradisestation.org/wiki/index.php/Space_law#Escape.2C_Escape_Attempts_.26_In-Cell_Vandalism

Thank you for taking the time to do this. This'll help avoid misunderstandings, and I'm excited to see how it works in practice. Would it be possible to add possession of weapon, assault and aggravated assault to escape attempt and attempted murder, murder and manslaughter to a successful escape? An often seen problem in perma is when security gets disarmed of their weapons and assaulted. Rarely do they die from what I've seen, though. Something like this might help further clarify in situations where officers are involved. 

[MattTheFicus]

I 100,000% would support removing the solitary cell window, its ONLY purpose is to break it to be a shitter for getting put in solitary, almost to the point where im gonna start getting plasma-glass installed to stop them. Sadly this means theyre just gonna spam the AI's camera with paper, but at least you can take that away if need be.

Edit: Also, its solitary, you get put in there for being "bad" in Perma (or being a solo-vamp in a tator round). Your "enjoyment" at that point is a non-factor, because most Wardens (myself included) truly only save solitary for the most greytider-esque of Perma inmates. You dont NEED to see the other solitary cell anyway.

Edited August 31, 2020 by MattTheFicus

[Rythen]

8 hours ago, Kyet said:

Space law updated: https://www.paradisestation.org/wiki/index.php/Space_law#Escape.2C_Escape_Attempts_.26_In-Cell_Vandalism

I still feel like this update doesn't cover what should be done if a prisoner sentenced to Permanent Imprisonment escapes custody during processing or during transport.  The new updated one says "Permabrig" prisoners are to be executed if they escape.  Does this now mean that someone who has been sentenced to Permanent Imprisonment but who escapes before they are placed into permabrig is free from execution?  That seems like a very odd distinction to have in my opinion but if that is the intended distinction, could it be said more explicitly that this only applies after they are placed into the perma brig?

Edited August 31, 2020 by Rythen

[Mitchs98]

Yeah I was about to ask that myself. The updates are quite nice, but additional clarification on such that Rhythen brought up would be nice. I don't personally see why they'd only be valid if they were only once put in perma and not if they escaped before fully put in perma or something.

[Kyet]

On 8/31/2020 at 11:06 AM, EmilyFontaine said:

Would it be possible to add possession of weapon, assault and aggravated assault to escape attempt and attempted murder, murder and manslaughter to a successful escape? An often seen problem in perma is when security gets disarmed of their weapons and assaulted. Rarely do they die from what I've seen, though. Something like this might help further clarify in situations where officers are involved. 

 

On 8/31/2020 at 12:20 PM, MattTheFicus said:

I 100,000% would support removing the solitary cell window, its ONLY purpose is to break it to be a shitter for getting put in solitary, almost to the point where im gonna start getting plasma-glass installed to stop them. Sadly this means theyre just gonna spam the AI's camera with paper, but at least you can take that away if need be.

Edit: Also, its solitary, you get put in there for being "bad" in Perma (or being a solo-vamp in a tator round). Your "enjoyment" at that point is a non-factor, because most Wardens (myself included) truly only save solitary for the most greytider-esque of Perma inmates. You dont NEED to see the other solitary cell anyway.

 

On 8/31/2020 at 5:21 PM, Rythen said:

I still feel like this update doesn't cover what should be done if a prisoner sentenced to Permanent Imprisonment escapes custody during processing or during transport.  The new updated one says "Permabrig" prisoners are to be executed if they escape.  Does this now mean that someone who has been sentenced to Permanent Imprisonment but who escapes before they are placed into permabrig is free from execution?  That seems like a very odd distinction to have in my opinion but if that is the intended distinction, could it be said more explicitly that this only applies after they are placed into the perma brig?

 

On 8/31/2020 at 5:25 PM, Mitchs98 said:

Yeah I was about to ask that myself. The updates are quite nice, but additional clarification on such that Rhythen brought up would be nice. I don't personally see why they'd only be valid if they were only once put in perma and not if they escaped before fully put in perma or something.

Please see the updated wiki section and see if it answers your questions:
https://www.paradisestation.org/wiki/index.php/Space_law#Escape.2C_Escape_Attempts_.26_In-Cell_Vandalism

[Mitchs98]

5 hours ago, Kyet said:

 

 

 

Please see the updated wiki section and see if it answers your questions:
https://www.paradisestation.org/wiki/index.php/Space_law#Escape.2C_Escape_Attempts_.26_In-Cell_Vandalism

Not really.

I believe the quetion myself and Rythen have is this;

If a perma prisoner escapes custody successfully, but was not yet put into perma, are they valid for execution or can nothing really be done to them at all other than re-capture? I'm fully aware it defines what escape counts as, however I feel it should cover situations such as this as well. They were never technically put into confinement, but they were going to be anyway, and thus escaped their sentence.

[Kyet]

1 hour ago, Mitchs98 said:

Not really.

I believe the quetion myself and Rythen have is this;

If a perma prisoner escapes custody successfully, but was not yet put into perma, are they valid for execution or can nothing really be done to them at all other than re-capture? I'm fully aware it defines what escape counts as, however I feel it should cover situations such as this as well. They were never technically put into confinement, but they were going to be anyway, and thus escaped their sentence.

They've been 'sentenced to permanent imprisonment', so they're considered a permanent prisoner, even if they're not in the permabrig and never were.
They're considered that from the moment they're sentenced.

The phrasing on the wiki page was changed from 'permabrig prisoner' to 'permanent prisoner' to address this - and make it clearer that it applies after sentencing, rather than being based on where they are.

[Mitchs98]

6 hours ago, Kyet said:

They've been 'sentenced to permanent imprisonment', so they're considered a permanent prisoner, even if they're not in the permabrig and never were.
They're considered that from the moment they're sentenced.

The phrasing on the wiki page was changed from 'permabrig prisoner' to 'permanent prisoner' to address this - and make it clearer that it applies after sentencing, rather than being based on where they are.

Was more referring to this line 

Quote

Escape is defined as leaving the area they're confined to, without permission from security. Breaking internal windows, without leaving the space they are confined to, does not count. E.g: temporary brig prisoners must be outside their own cell, permabrig prisoners must be outside of the prisoner-accessible area of the permabrig, and isolation cell prisoners must be outside of their specific isolation cell (moving into the other isolation cell does count).

But so long as you say that it counts, then that's all my concern was. I assume that them being cuffed to be processed would count as 'the area they're confined to' even if it doesn't exactly read as such at first glance, but makes sense to be so after reading it a few times.