Fraility Synthetic Ban Complaint

[Butlerblock]

Admin(s) Key: Fraility
Your ckey (Byond username): Butlerblock
Your Discord name (if applicable): Butlerblock#5035

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 9/3/20 12:30 CST, 5:54 PM GMT

Nature of complaint: Misconduct? Misapplication of rules? Not entirely sure, one of the two.
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):
Got Synthetic warned because I didn't notice a couple binary chat requests for all borgs to remove any floor tile found in sight. Got escalated to a ban when I asked the genuine question of "Is there anything preventing me from unsyncing from AI round start?" after being told AI is my master and I have to follow every order to the letter.

Full description of events:
Was playing secborg in a vamp round. Sec wasn't the worst but definitely wasn't ontop of sec threats including letting multiple vamps out of perma on two occasions, so I was extremely busy trying to hunt down vamps. Around 3-4 vamps even reached full power in this round. At one point admins kept uploading ion laws that somewhat affected our gameplay. The first law was "All crew must whisper" which I actually followed. I screamed at crew on comms to whisper and convinced AI to turn off t-comms since they weren't complying, and yelled at anyone in person who wasn't whispering until the law got fixed. Later down the shift while I was super busy trying to deal with the vamp problem I noticed we got a law called "Floor tiles are expensive to maintain." I took this law as "Prevent floor tiles from being destroyed at all costs" and since I never saw them being destroyed, I never had to deal with it. The AI took this law as "Uproot every single floor tile in sight." I never really saw this direct order for us to do it, but I noticed AI telling specific borgs that have crowbars to do it, so I never changed to engi module. If they did tell me specifically or every borg in general to load engi module, I did not see it as I was too busy helping sec out. About 10 minutes later I got asked by an admin why I wasn't following the AI's orders. I told them that I wasn't paying attention on comms since AI seemed a bit new and was never speaking to me directly pretty much the whole shift. They declared that I was going to get warned because I should've been paying attention to binary no matter what.

After this I'm pretty upset over what a minor mistake it was. All I did was not see a couple chats from the AI and I'm already getting warned on the role I play 95% of the time.

Admin is now accusing me of either hostility or bitterness even though I've been pretty complaint, just upset over this warning. I get law 1 is a thing but I'm sure I get at least SOME leeway of debate during ahelps. 


Admin is once again repeating this rule at me even though I haven't said that they aren't, I was only saying it was an ion law fixed within 3 minutes because of how I'm getting a warning over it, not how I should've acted towards it.


This pm is defending myself over how I "should've" acted in the premise that I never saw the AI's orders, which I didn't. Since acting in the right despite not having any direct orders shows integrity, yet I don't know what "right" is in this situation.

This is the pm that pretty much got me banned, even though I'm asking it as a legitimate question. I don't remember there being anywhere in the rules saying I can't do this, and if I get unsynced from AI round start I won't have to deal with them. 



I understand some sort of bwoink since I obviously wasn't doing what I should have. But warning me over a simple mistake such as not noticing a couple lines of text when I'm super busy already seems a bit harsh, not to mention escalating it to a synthetic ban when I didn't do anything wrong, and I definitely NEVER said the law was stupid. It seems like in this situation admins were just uploading ions just to force me off from my duty as security and pretty much bait me into getting banned or warned. I don't see a reason why an admin would ever want to derail a certain group of players off their job and then warn them just because they didn't notice they were supposed to be doing what the ion laws told them to do (which basically what admins say to do since they uploaded the ions) instead of our actual duties.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Butlerblock

[Fraility]

[2020-09-03T17:26:35] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">when the ai saked for cyborgs to assist with removing floor tiles why did you just continue hunting vampires?</font>

[2020-09-03T17:26:43] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): Honestly didn&#39;t notice
[2020-09-03T17:27:06] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): AI&#39;s been kind of weird this shift so I haven&#39;t been paying attention to binary
[2020-09-03T17:27:06] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">perhaps pay more attention ton the binary channel</font>
[2020-09-03T17:27:59] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">mate the ai is your boss you have to pay attention to it</font>
[2020-09-03T17:29:28] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">well?</font>
[2020-09-03T17:29:55] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): Idk what you want me to say. I haven&#39;t been paying attention. It&#39;s a small chat compared to the glaring red and green text I need to pay attention to
[2020-09-03T17:30:04] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): If I see it I&#39;ll follow their orders
[2020-09-03T17:30:35] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">alright i&#39;ll give you a warning this time. next time you ignore them you&#39;ll get a sythetic ban</font>
[2020-09-03T17:31:18] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): It was literally an ion law that was fixed within like 3 minutes. I don&#39;t see why it&#39;s such a huge issue.
[2020-09-03T17:32:01] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">mate it wasn&#39;t fixed in 3 minutes, so cut the bollocks</font>
[2020-09-03T17:32:40] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): What bollocks? I&#39;m just a tiny bit upset that I&#39;m getting a warning that was a genuine mistake because I wasn&#39;t paying attention to binary chat. I&#39;m not trying to escelate anything.
[2020-09-03T17:33:01] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">you laws are the most important thing to you as a synthetic and you should follow them to the letter</font>
[2020-09-03T17:33:36] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">you are getting a warning for ignoring the AI and your laws.</font>
[2020-09-03T17:34:10] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): And when it&#39;s an arbitrary ion law that says &#34;Floor tiles are expensive to maintain.&#34; Does that mean git rid of every single floor tile in sight, or prevent the damage of floor tiles at any cost. I don&#39;t what what I&#39;m supposed to do
[2020-09-03T17:35:08] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">it means what it means thats why the ai interprated it in such a way and told the borgs to remove the tiles</font>
[2020-09-03T17:36:27] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): Is there anything preventing me from asking robotics to unsync myself round start every shift?
[2020-09-03T17:37:45] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Rize): <font face="Verdana">right mate from that comment alone i am upgrading it from a warning to a sythetic ban. appeal on the forums</font>
[2020-09-03T17:37:53] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): It&#39;s a genuine question???
[2020-09-03T17:38:02] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): I&#39;m literally not trying to start anything
[2020-09-03T17:41:46] ADMIN: PM: Fraility/(Victor Creed)->Butlerblock/(Jada Cuddles): <font face="Verdana">please appeal on the forums when you have had time to read the synthic section on the advanced rules</font>

 

Above is the full pm logs for our interaction.

 

Early in the round the AI asked us if they could test out the multi camera feature, that is usually disabled. We delayed this request, as it gave a distinct disadvantage over the vampire antagonists in the round. As the round progressed there was only a handful of active vampire left, so myself and the other admins online decided to allow the multi-camera feature approximately thirty minutes into the round. As there were still active antags we decided a suitable exchange would be to provide custom Ion laws to the AI, in order to level the playing field. Central command annouced that there may be glitches in the Ai, so the crew were not taken by surprise. All the ion laws i provided were somehow in line with the law set (corporate)  that the ai and cyborgs were on. The Laws were intended as a bit of fun and entertainment for the Ai and cyborgs in a round where the majority of antags had been dealt with early. I even said to the ai player who was an experienced player, to just Ahelp and ask me to stop if it was getting irritating. The Ai player was enjoying the laws and so were the other cyborg players.

 

I private messaged you after receiving an Ahelp saying that you were ignoring the Ai's orders and the ion laws. Instead you were just going ahead with just hunting the vampires. Given your recent history as a synthetic including one recent ban i was well within my rights to issue a ban straight away. However i decided to discuss the situation with you. When i gave you a warning after you explained the situation, if you had just apologised and said it would not happen again, i would have left it at a warning. You instead decided to argue with me stating you don't know what the issue is. 

 

[2020-09-03T17:36:27] ADMIN: PM: Butlerblock/(Rize)->Fraility/(Victor Creed): Is there anything preventing me from asking robotics to unsync myself round start every shift?

 

This message alone shows that you do not understand the spirit to playing a synthetic. This and along with your recent history as a synthetic made me realise that you need a better understanding of synthetics before you should play one again. Hence the upgrade to the ban.

[Butlerblock]

I started the first reply with a simple notice of why I was ignoring my ion laws with a very neutral response of “I didn’t see it.” I easily would have apologized after explaining myself but you seemed to already be hostile towards me despite my neutral and cooperative reply.

I don’t see how I was arguing in this situation at all. While I wasn’t being overly friendly and apologetic, I was definitely not being hostile or passive aggressive at all in this situation. 

I don’t see how my previous ban which was resolved without a large issue would lead to me not seeing a few lines of binary and a very simple question that I had asked can lead to escalate this warning to a ban. I asked this question not only because of this round but because the night before the ban I had an AI require every single borg they had round start and after to load a sec module(without great reason such as demons or cult or an overly bloody station). This led to me cryoing and being somewhat salty after ahelping and the admin saying it was okay for AI to do that.

I also definitely know the spirit of synthetics. I Didn’t ask that question just so I can get unsynced from laws and valid hunt antags every single round, I was just curious if it was allowed. If you would’ve watched me earlier that round I followed an ion law that required me to force crew to whisper which I went over in my OP. I almost always follow my ion laws and laws include holding back on harming even uncontainable vamps or cultists on crewsimov. I don’t see how you can decide my motives of how I play this game with such little in round evidence. ((EDIT: By the previous sentence I mean a single rounds evidence, not a small amount relative to a single round))

I also went through the logs and never really saw AI target me directly saying that I wasnt listening or screaming my name over binary. If they ahelped it seemed like they just wanted you to bwoink me to listen to my laws.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Butlerblock

[necaladun]

Apologies for the delay, thought this one was done and other AC's bumped it.

When something like this happens, the admin has to make a judgement call on whether or not the player is telling the truth. It'd be nice if we could assume people are always telling the truth, but it doesn't take long as an admin before you're fairly jaded from people swearing they never hit someone despite the 100 attack logs saying otherwise. I don't think it's at all outside of the realm of possibility that a player would choose to ignore an AI command, then pretend they didn't see it. Unfortunately, that's not something the logs can show the truth of.

It appears Frailtiy was on the fence here, and was willing to just leave the situation alone after telling you to follow the AI and your laws...up until you asked specifically how to desync. That seems beyond suspicious to me, given the timing and context.

Additionally, desyncing from your master AI goes hugely against the spirit of synthetics and their relationship with the AI. Taking actions to specifically stop the AI from being able to order you around is very much going against the AIs wishes, unless they've specifically told you to for some strange reason.

This combined with the multiple other issues you've had with admins while playing a synthetic, seem more than enough grounds to issue a job ban from synthetics. @Fraility didn't misapply the rules or go out bounds here, and I trust his judgement.