Giving the Psychologist a purpose

[maxfromsweden]

Hey!

Right now, the Psychologist has no purpose, mechanically speaking. If they were removed the game would not be different in the slightest. Compare this to other heavy RP roles like:

• Librarian: Some people really like reading the books, and I would personally miss the books. They have a unique mechanic, even if it's shallow. Removing them would remove a feature.
• Chaplain: Can bless people and are actually mechanically useful during some rounds (cultists and vampires). Removing them might actually affect balance in some modes.
• IAAs: Has a clear purpose on the station. Recently got their own comms channel which I love. When playing a command role, I always stay in touch with IAA to find any SOP breaches or direct them to stuff that needs investigating. If directed, they can be a great asset. If removed, SOP wouldn't be followed and adherence to Space Law might also suffer.

Then we have the Psychologist. According to their SOP, there is no one who they can actually treat, without the permission of someone else. This makes sense, since their treatment doesn't actually do anything mechanically. Treating criminals is also, due to the nature of the gamemodes, useless. Traitors are working for the syndicate either willingly or forced and a good therapy session won't change that. The rest of the gamemodes force criminals that are impossible to help (vampires/changelings) for a psychologist. Even if they can be helped, they can't be released due to their status as EoC.

The only criminals left are the small scale ones. The greytiders and shitters. I suppose the psychologists job could be to try to deal with those but as a psychologist you're coming at it from the wrong angle. They need information about rules of the server and how to act, not psychological help.

Psychologist SOP for reference:

Spoiler

1. The Psychologist may perform a full psychological evaluation on anyone, along with any potential treatment, provided the person in question seeks them out;

2. The Psychologist may not force someone to receive therapy if the person does not want it. Exception is made for violent criminals, if the Head of Security or Magistrate orders it;

3. The Psychologist is not permitted to administer any medication without consent from their patient;

4. The Psychologist is not permitted to muzzle or straightjacket anyone without express permission from the Chief Medical Officer or Head of Security. An exception is made for violent and/or out of control patients;

5. The Psychologist may recommend a patient's demotion if they find their psychological condition to be unfit;

6. The Psychologist may request to consult prisoners in Permanent Imprisonment. This must happen inside the Brig, preferably inside the Permabrig, and only with Warden and/or Head of Security authorization. This should be done under the supervision of a member of Security with Permabrig access

In a short summary, they can't do anything assumed by their job without permission from someone else. Which would be fine, if they had some sort of dangerous or great power, but they don't. However, I don't think the psychiatrist should be able to force people into treatment against their will. I do think others should have that power though.

 

So how do we solve this? Personally, I think features that lack purpose should be removed. By that logic, the Psychologist should be removed. On the other hand, I like the idea of the Psychologist so I wanted to bring some suggestions to make them able to do stuff.

Here are some suggestions to give them a purpose:

• Positive Psychology. Some players will become angry playing this game. The Psychologist, could try to change their emotional state by offering encouragement and compliments. Their goal would be to turn those frowns upside down. This is hard in real life and doing it over a game might be harder. But using this type of psychology might actually make people feel a bit better.
• Treat it like a serious job. While a lot of beginners play IAA agents, people know when an IAA agent aren't living up to their standard. A psychologist should have a similar bar to reach for. They can't act however they want because then they would be worse than their patients.
• Psychiatric session/evaluation demanded: Any head can demand a psychiatric evaluation or session by any of their subordinates if they seem angry, sad or generally unhappy. If we base the Psychologists treatment on Positive Psychology, this sessions purpose would be to make them happy or calm down. IAA might also be able to demand that non-heads do a session. The Psychologist could also get access to the Procedures channel. The two outcomes I imagine for this would be the person demanded to do the session either flipping out completely and escalating their anger, which I would consider grounds for demotion OR accepting it, realizing they may not feel allright and do the session. If they feel better afterwards would depend on the psychiatrist.
• Research: The Psychologist can perform actual psychological research, just like in real life! CentComm, since they sometimes do odd stuff, might want to try some strange experiment. I assume this would be heavily based on the admins on at the shift start, but I'm also wondering how hard it would be to have a rotation of 10 different "experiments" similar to station goal that the Psychologist has to perform. Checking for completion would not be necessary, as long as they have a clear task. They could give their findings to the captain who could fax it to CentComm. Examples: Can (antagonist) be cured by 10 minute exposure to the clown? Will the happiness level of the station increase if the tiles are changed to wood? Will violence increase or decrease, based on the amount of flowers placed in the hallways? If a "calm area" is constructed near dorms, will people visit it to find inner peace? If the mime start acting out peaceful and happy scenarios, will the crew calmness increase?

 

These are some thoughts I trew together in like half an hour so I'm sorry they're a bit confused.

I'm sure there are plenty of better suggestions out there and I would love to see a job I love IRL get some more purpose in this game! So keep the suggestions coming!

[Kyet]

From an admin pov, my main concern with psych is the fact that a good chunk of the time, it is played by players who are absolutely bald, and decide to kidnap someone, straightjacket them, and force-feed them drugs. Because that's what they think is appropriate for a psych.
I've had to ban more people from psych/medical for this than I care to remember.

As such, any mechanic which psychs can abuse to detain people for long periods of time, or really at all, is probably not a good mechanic.

If we're going to give psych a mechanic, something they can use to make the job more interesting/relevant, then I would suggest:

• something detection-based, like the ability to use an item to scan for abnormal brainwaves, which could reveal things like vampire thralling, mindslave implants, etc. This would require a unique neural scanner, them to hold still for 30-60 seconds, or something like that. Enough constraints that the psych can't mass-test everyone.
• something to do with curing psych abnormalities, like for example reversing abductor programming, or effectively giving someone a mindslave implant that makes them loyal to NT (OOCly, this is a reward for traitors, who get to be released 'on parole' rather than sitting out the rest of the round, as such this implant would be extremely limited supply, only one is available and only the psych can use it).
• have a system where people can opt to give their character mental disabilities, not just physical ones, during char creation (e.g. syndicate-induced PTSD) and have the psych able to dispense unique drugs to help with these... and have a unique HUD that lets them identify people whose medical records show they have these conditions (basically make it easier for them to find rp partners)

Really, we should consider just removing the straightjacket from the psych, and giving it to sec's medical wing. Psych is meant to be treating patients on a voluntary basis. Patients sent to the psych against their will should come exclusively from security - not something the psych should be able to engineer themselves.

 

[maxfromsweden]

On 11/15/2020 at 2:47 AM, Kyet said:

From an admin pov, my main concern with psych is the fact that a good chunk of the time, it is played by players who are absolutely bald, and decide to kidnap someone, straightjacket them, and force-feed them drugs. Because that's what they think is appropriate for a psych.
I've had to ban more people from psych/medical for this than I care to remember.

As such, any mechanic which psychs can abuse to detain people for long periods of time, or really at all, is probably not a good mechanic.

If we're going to give psych a mechanic, something they can use to make the job more interesting/relevant, then I would suggest:

• something detection-based, like the ability to use an item to scan for abnormal brainwaves, which could reveal things like vampire thralling, mindslave implants, etc. This would require a unique neural scanner, them to hold still for 30-60 seconds, or something like that. Enough constraints that the psych can't mass-test everyone.
• something to do with curing psych abnormalities, like for example reversing abductor programming, or effectively giving someone a mindslave implant that makes them loyal to NT (OOCly, this is a reward for traitors, who get to be released 'on parole' rather than sitting out the rest of the round, as such this implant would be extremely limited supply, only one is available and only the psych can use it).
• have a system where people can opt to give their character mental disabilities, not just physical ones, during char creation (e.g. syndicate-induced PTSD) and have the psych able to dispense unique drugs to help with these... and have a unique HUD that lets them identify people whose medical records show they have these conditions (basically make it easier for them to find rp partners)

Really, we should consider just removing the straightjacket from the psych, and giving it to sec's medical wing. Psych is meant to be treating patients on a voluntary basis. Patients sent to the psych against their will should come exclusively from security - not something the psych should be able to engineer themselves.

 

Great points!

Regarding that psychologists are usually bald, I totally agree. I argue that is due to their current status as "civilian with medical access" and not inherent to the job. Experienced players won't choose psychologist because they know they don't do anything. This is just another argument for removing the role until it's fixed.

If the job actually had a purpose I think the "baldie-rate" of psychologists would lower due to players wanting to play it.

Coding solutions would be great but I assume they would take a while. The three top suggestions I had could be implemented today by just re-writing the wiki and SOP. They would fill a similar niche to IAA agents but can't act until someone tells them to. Obviously those suggestions don't exclude the suggestions you suggest.

My suggestions, for reference:

Spoiler

Positive Psychology. Some players will become angry playing this game. The Psychologist, could try to change their emotional state by offering encouragement and compliments. Their goal would be to turn those frowns upside down. This is hard in real life and doing it over a game might be harder. But using this type of psychology might actually make people feel a bit better.

Treat it like a serious job. While a lot of beginners play IAA agents, people know when an IAA agent aren't living up to their standard. A psychologist should have a similar bar to reach for. They can't act however they want because then they would be worse than their patients.

Psychiatric session/evaluation demanded: Any head can demand a psychiatric evaluation or session by any of their subordinates if they seem angry, sad or generally unhappy. If we base the Psychologists treatment on Positive Psychology, this sessions purpose would be to make them happy or calm down. IAA might also be able to demand that non-heads do a session. The Psychologist could also get access to the Procedures channel. The two outcomes I imagine for this would be the person demanded to do the session either flipping out completely and escalating their anger, which I would consider grounds for demotion OR accepting it, realizing they may not feel allright and do the session. If they feel better afterwards would depend on the psychiatrist.

I don't see the point in keeping the role as it is now. As you say, it's mostly played by baldies more abusing it than helping people. This is why I want it to change.

 

[rwn]

it's kinda hard to think of changes that would/could salvage the role and make it viable, but i might have a couple ideas for improving the role...

i realize that a lot of the time when i play psych/therapist, the office's so hidden away in the back of medbay that a remapping would be almost necessary for interactivity. as it is now, the office is almost inaccessible, and that makes it hard for the psych to actually get patients to come in.

it might be a good idea to start making therapy/a meeting with the psych a requirement for new intakes to prison (maybe certain types of prisoners, like ones going into perma?). this gives them more of a chance to be useful, imo, and gives them something to actually do.

some sort of benefit to actually getting therapy would be nice, too, for the patient, but i'm at a loss as to what would be appropriate to have granted by a therapist. maybe a natural boon that activates after being in close proximity to the therapist in question while in their office?

[FlamingLily]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:47 PM, Kyet said:

From an admin pov, my main concern with psych is the fact that a good chunk of the time, it is played by players who are absolutely bald, and decide to kidnap someone, straightjacket them, and force-feed them drugs. Because that's what they think is appropriate for a psych.
I've had to ban more people from psych/medical for this than I care to remember.

As such, any mechanic which psychs can abuse to detain people for long periods of time, or really at all, is probably not a good mechanic.

If we're going to give psych a mechanic, something they can use to make the job more interesting/relevant, then I would suggest:

• something detection-based, like the ability to use an item to scan for abnormal brainwaves, which could reveal things like vampire thralling, mindslave implants, etc. This would require a unique neural scanner, them to hold still for 30-60 seconds, or something like that. Enough constraints that the psych can't mass-test everyone.
• something to do with curing psych abnormalities, like for example reversing abductor programming, or effectively giving someone a mindslave implant that makes them loyal to NT (OOCly, this is a reward for traitors, who get to be released 'on parole' rather than sitting out the rest of the round, as such this implant would be extremely limited supply, only one is available and only the psych can use it).
• have a system where people can opt to give their character mental disabilities, not just physical ones, during char creation (e.g. syndicate-induced PTSD) and have the psych able to dispense unique drugs to help with these... and have a unique HUD that lets them identify people whose medical records show they have these conditions (basically make it easier for them to find rp partners)

Really, we should consider just removing the straightjacket from the psych, and giving it to sec's medical wing. Psych is meant to be treating patients on a voluntary basis. Patients sent to the psych against their will should come exclusively from security - not something the psych should be able to engineer themselves.

 

I like this, especially the 3rd point. I would absolutely actually RP with psychs with these changes.

[1jovemtr00]

The office location is the main problem. But people that poor RP or are there just for the action shouldn't take complex roles as this one. For me, it is good as it is now. Also, while the location of the office hasn't changed, you can locate yourself to the front desk for example. That is what I do. Also the tips in the wiki session helps a bit with ideas on how to interact better. Letting people know that you're there and also not sticking too much indoors also helps.

[procdrone]

As kyet mentioned, it would make a lot of sense and be very useful if Psych could somehow easier identify brain washing and treat it.

Reverse effects of abductors kidnappings? (thus removing objectives from them)

Unbrainwash could be a psych exclusive ability that he can channel for a long time and only being valid for people inside his office. (like cqc for chef)

EDIT: of course not mentioning implant induced brain washing, since its more mechanical thus requiring operations. but still easier detection would be very cool and give him mechanical purpouse in the round.

Edited December 17, 2020 by procdrone

[Viz]

Being able to unfuck someone's brain after it's been fucked by abductors could make abductors more... manageable, potentially even making the gamemode more fun and removing the need for the whole "CC calls the shuttle because station's in utter fucking chaos" mechanic. Anything that potentially fixes a gamemode that's out of rotation is worth exploring in my book.

Additionally, being able to scan for brainwashing... stuff... could be nice as it could help Security ascertain whether someone who's done something bad is mindslaved. Right now the only option is surgery or an upgraded body scanner, assuming there's a brig physician who knows their stuff, which is sort of not nice when the consequence of not doing it is putting an innocent man in perma, or worse.

I'd like to see that for sure.

[Sonador]

I agree that presently the psych is at a severe disadvantage. You're using an RP role to address what is otherwise, non-mechanically, an issue of poor RP. While it's great if two roleplaying users get up to some actual RP, it's the Psychiatrists job, basically, to roleplay the bald greytide out of people.

Adding some mechanical purpose to the psych would make them useful, and make rounds interesting, similar to how the chaplain is a counter to cult and vampires. Might be great for Rev rounds, sling thralls, etc.

[Eler00]

I kind of liked the suggestion of making the Psychologist perform some 'experiments' on the crew. It would take the role into a very different direction though, and might make crew ignore the annoying psych with his weird demands.

[maxfromsweden]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:50 AM, Eler00 said:

I kind of liked the suggestion of making the Psychologist perform some 'experiments' on the crew. It would take the role into a very different direction though, and might make crew ignore the annoying psych with his weird demands.

Yeah, there is so much potential there. Since psychological experiments are always based on people, they would force interaction between the psychologist and the crewmembers. There could be a number of different experiments, pre-determined, similar to station goals where the Psychologist has to write a report and hand it to the captain or NTrep for faxing in or the goals could be more freeform and have no "cleared" state.

It would require some re-writes to the Psychologist and it would become a more prominent role, but as I mention in my first post, they have no purpose right now so why not try it.

Goals they could have range from "candid camera" level seriousness to really dark. There could be actual scientific value for some of these things for a corporation like Nanotrasen. In todays world, many experiments wouldn't be ethical but Nanotrasen doesn't seem to be that ethical.. Off the top of my head, scaled from comedic and light to sad and dark, here are some experiments/studys:

Does the violence level of the station decrease based on the cleanliness of the station? Make sure it's clean and observe the results. Suggested method is increasing the amount of janitors, checking they do their job and correlate with amount of reports of violence or brigged subjects.

How does the different departments react to having the clown in their department, entertaining them? Perform the experiment, interview subjects and write a detailed report.

Which race responds best to a pay raise? Have the HoP call in members of different races and tell them they are getting a payraise. Obviously they can't find out this is an experiment based on race so keep it secret. Observe and write a report.

Does the level of violence increase if the station is dirtier or bloodier? Make sure it's messy and observe the results.

Is there a way to make prisoners performe productive labor for Nanotrasen? Work with security to set up simple workstations in the cells. Writing books, making sushi, crafting objects could all be useful and valuable to Nanotrasen. What motivates them best? Money, promise of freedom, encouragement or threats?

What is the breaking point for the different command members? Interview each of them and see if they behave professionally even though you are allowed to act like a baffoon to rile them up.

What is the best way to explain to an individual that they have been wrongfully arrested without them seeking revenge or becoming unproductive? Get security to arrest 3 innocent civilians and find out.

 

Since these psychological experiments are based on natural reactions, the Psychologist should keep them secret for as much as they can. It might lead to a closer work with the NTrep or IAA agents which I think would be good.

[Predatornc]

Hi. I mainly Play Psychologist as Dr. Parker Thompson so I wanted to bump this. I love the idea of having it to choose for crew members to have certain mental conditions for their characters. Conditions that they can then go to the psychologist for to get treatment, prescriptions and more. You could also include minor addictions as well maybe in such a system? LIke a pre established Nicotine Addiction.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Predatornc