Concerning A Captain Demotion

[Kugamo]

Admin(s) Key: unknown
Your ckey: Kugamo
Your Discord name: Kugamo

Date(s) of incident: 11/24/2020 ~ 12:00 AM GMT ~ 6:00 AM CST

Nature of complaint: misconduct

Brief description: Actions of CC officer in game questionable at best, insulting and LRP at worst.

Full description of events: I was playing captain at the time of this incident, I was demoted by a CC field officer. It was a really volatile round, the AI had been subverted and it and its borgs were doing a fantastic job of insuring no one un-subverted them. The AI was lawed to protect the interests of the syndicate people and to kill/hinder the interests of nanotrasen people, I dont remember the exact wording. So this was the situation as I found it when I joined as captain this round. Command was actively portraying themselves as syndicate so as to avoid the AIs wrath (which until after the round I interpreted some command member's use of comms to do this as genuine, I know call me dumb), and we were on RED due to confirmed syndicate agents aboard. Also the NTREP and magistrate after whispering to themselves invited themselves into my office and said that the HOP was the most likely subverter of the AI. So my confidence in the command staff was extremely minimal as a result.

I dont remember the CC member's name exactly, but I do know it was a vox. Chikiyaya or something, forgive me but vox names are all so very similar.

My first task I took upon myself was to fix the AI, It must be said at the time I didnt fully understand that you had to purge the laws of borgs and AI before relawing them. Anyways I distinctly remember telling the gathered command personnel on the bridge after the RD suggested we just let the AI remain subverted, since its laws allowed it to not have to harm anyone and it wasnt doing so, that "I will demote you and anyone else that suggests that again". I said this because doing so would allow active agents to abuse the powers of the AI for their own interests and possibly against crew. I didnt explicitly state this reasoning at the time because I expected agents in the ranks, but my warning was clear. Then I died from lasers in the AI upload, but thats besides the point

My head was very much spinning trying to parse out how and what was happening with the borgs even though I reset their laws without purging them in the intervening time. There was alot of drama about what was going on and what to do about it over command comms between when I was revived and when eventually the NTREP or the Magistrate and the CE carded the AI. Among other things said over comms... When I explicitly asked RD hard questions about the AI and where it was and who had it and what was going on with them (RD is in charge of the AI), they responded with insults and general aversion to the entire situation. Either I wasnt paying attention very well, or there wasnt alot of communication between me and the other command members who were all trying to resolve the situation in their own ways. Which made me actively try harder to gain info from them. Anyways my point is that in the time after the AI was carded I clearly remember the CE saying that the RD was suggesting we do nothing about the AI AGAIN.

Once I understood the AI was on the bridge carded I went there and confirmed it was in the NTREP's possession, I then called for the RD to come to the bridge for demotion. I ordered their demotion on the record for insubordination and uncooperative attitude, because as I understood it they were actively advocating for the continuation of a subverted AI, neglecting their responsibility over the AI and were responding to my inquiries with insults and general hostility. Albeit probably not the best grounds for demotion, but the shit they were throwing in my direction on top of the chaos of the situation was enough for me to think them an agent or at worst incompotent. I demoted them infront of the command staff on the bridge in a big taser and disabler shoot out that was all too much drama.

10. The Captain may not fire any Head of Staff without reasonable justification (ie, incompetency, criminal activity, or otherwise any action that endangers/compromises the station and/or crew).

Now to the point: very late into the round a special operations officer appeared on the command comms out of nowhere without bolded text, in a traitors round... (I immediately thought voice synthesizer) I asked who the hell they were, and they replied something akin to that I was making myself look bad. Arrived without any notice in paper or PDA. They came seemingly from some correspondence between CC and the NTREP, of which I was never asked for comment or clarification. I was never talked to by the NTREP concerning the demotion, and from my memory never asked to. There was comms chatter about the incident briefly between the CE and me, which I cut short because it wasn't relevant and I didnt see any point in it outside of satisfying the CE's conscience. The CC officer appeared on the bridge, and then asked what happened to evidently the room, and a number of people replied. I tried giving my side about what happened, to which they responded "not from you, idiot" or something akin to that. Then they handcuffed me after telling me not to move, and after some urging from the CE replied I was being demoted. They then proceeded to strip me on the bridge infront of everyone down to my naked skin, handcuffed. And then gave me preachy advice about the whole thing while I was naked and handcuffed. I was then taken by the NTREP to the shuttle brig and left there buckled in a seat naked and handcuffed until the round ended.

I think  the whole thing could have greatly benefited from some more communication from me admittedly to the rest of command, but especially between the NTREP and the Captain, and more than anything else the CC officer and the Captain themselves. I was never given a chance to give my side of things, and I would think IC CC would want to know the truth enough to protect their personnel if possible. Even without IC justification for hearing the captain's side of things, disallowing any counter narrative after making no attempt to gain it and then proceeding to handcuff and strip me infront of everyone was needlessly insulting. I just think it was kinda fucked, even if I was in the wrong for ordering the RDs demotion, the manner in which the CC character acted was LRP at best, and insulting at worst.

I get that people thought I ordered the RDs demotion out of spite of their demeanor, and yea to some degree it was (which I have to own) but acting like that was the only possible explanation of my actions was a bit disappointing. I was being somewhat oppressive in my orders and my communications this round, and I was so for a purpose.. I was making my orders clear and readable so those who were agents would have to oust themselves in not following them. To my understanding alot of them could be agents, and because I was unfamiliar with how lawing the borgs works... I briefly trusted the borgs word over that of command for a time and had the CE thoroughly searched because of it... after which they seemingly took it upon themselves to treat me like a baby child who only knows how to be a dumbass asshole to everyone and as a result gave my actions no charity whatsoever. So in a way I made an enemy of myself to them.

At the end of it all it turned out the RD was actually a cling traitor, which doesnt exactly justify my reasoning in the matter... But hell if it doesn't take some of the sting out of it all. I really think actively ignoring my side of the whole the thing by the CC officer was unfortunate, and I feel like I have lost standing in the community as a result of this round.  It was like my fate had been already decided before the CC officer showed up, and that without my side of things. I can only assume there was a loaded fax sent to CC without my side of the story, or the command comms exchange with the CE about my reasoning was listened to (in which I was purposefully obtuse because I still misunderstood the CE as a traitor because of their touting of syndicate objectives over comms, also due to their hostility towards me). If I could do it all again I probably would take a different tact, but I still would want some greater measure of impartiality in CC officers when it comes to demoting captains. I really felt like a manufactured pariah, and yeah thats why I made this complaint. Thanks for reading.

[necaladun]

Hi there, thanks for submitting this.

First of all, there's no notes about this on your account, so no OOC action has been taken.....which was a mistake by the admin, who I now have to look up in the logs. If a head of staff is being demoted by CC, that should be noted, because anyone with a habit of getting demoted by CC should likely get a job ban. This isn't to say it's a habit or in risk of a job ban from this.

Myself and another admin have reviewed the logs, and I'm in agreement that demotion was needed here. I don't think it's particularly bad - you were in way over your head. Captain is a very tough role, and requires being able to follow multiple conversations and situations at once. In this case, you weren't so bad a Captain that a jobban was given (or even a note left ) - the whole situation was one where it's expected for an inexperienced Captain to have trouble. Having 2 of your heads as antags generally makes for a shit round as Captain. And personally, the 2 worst are hops and RDs.

I say all this to make it clear your standing has not fallen in the eyes of the community - or at least the staff here. Your story is not at all unusual, and I doubt Dan will remember it in a few months. Most of the staff team have worse notes on their record.

 

For the actual IC sides of how various things went down:

The demotion of the RD was technically legal - 

Quote

SAY: Ahasera Zashora (118,137,1): (Command) 'Eat a bockss of dickss you MORONIC SSHITFACE.'

is grounds for demotion. But in this situation, it's a really dumb idea to do the demotion. Asserting your authority is not the priority with rogue borgs like this. You don't demote the CMO during a virus outbreak for insulting you, nor the HoS during nuke ops. You should accept and understand the RD is going to be angry (they usually are. If they're quiet, be worried). From the looks of things, all of command was quite angry with you for not communicating with them. 

8 hours ago, Kugamo said:

Either I wasnt paying attention very well, or there wasnt alot of communication between me and the other command members who were all trying to resolve the situation in their own ways.

I believe it's the former - with the 20/20ish hindsight that is logs, perfect in accuracy but without context - I can see that you missed a lot of chatter, and command had to repeat themselves frequently towards you. 

It's also a bad idea to do a demotion like this when all of command is so against you. Always make sure the blueshield and HoS are on your side when demoting heads.

I say most of this because the way you speak of the round indicates that you've learnt from it, which means you have the potential of a great Captain. 

 

As for the actual demotion, this could have been handled with a Centcomm message quite easily.

Instead a self-insert character was sent to insult and abuse you. This is not how you educate a Captain who is panicing and over his head.

I'm incredibly disappointed here, and will be talking with the other heads over the next few days as to what action will be taken.

 

Complaint is with merit. Action is pending.

[thatdanguy23]

I'm the admin in question in this complaint.

I apologize that the inclusion of a Central Command officer was considered insulting and abusive, and I agree with sincerity that I have a lot to learn about tact when dealing with a generally shitty situation for all sides. I'm still - after months - not terribly certain where the line should be drawn when bringing an SOO on-station. Is it something for a severe "you fucked up" scenario? Is it for fun, small tidbits that make the crew feel like their company "cares"?

I confess I don't know. I also don't know how an SOO should be portrayed - like an omniscient that knows everything that occurred, or as someone who hears and reads what's given to them in a fax or on the radio and works with that?

 

In the end, it doesn't matter. I screwed up here, and I'm sorry you feel your reputation was "squandered", somehow - even though we're supposed to follow the "remember the good, ignore the bad" aspects, I understand our community doesn't always work like that, especially during something as public as a field demotion. Hopefully this doesn't discourage you from trying in future. A note was not applied to the account because I considered it more of an in-character roleplay sort of thing, rather than anything I should punish you OOCly for.

This isn't the first time I've made this sort of mistake as Cheriyaya; I do try to portray her as an actual character, as opposed to how I myself view a situation, but I suppose that's not how the regular player sees an SOO. I reiterate that I have a lot to learn in this regard. As such, I'll probably either delete her or put her on the very, very furthest back burner while I try to figure out the boundaries in place.

 

I look forward to hearing from the head admins about this, so I may learn or be punished appropriately. A player's voice is always important, and I'm glad it's being heard in this complaint.

[Kugamo]

Despite it all I don't have hard feelings about what happened, I just don't want it to happen again. (We are all just trying to have fun here, no?) Alot went wrong in that round, and I cannot deny my part in it. I definitely didn't and still don't appreciate the hostility I received from others when it did, and although probably warranted to some degree... it wasn't necessary. IC and OOC. There is no round that I go into without the understanding that it might go awry in some way... But at the risk of repeating myself, having alot go wrong and then having the ultimate authority in game affirm and reenact the hostility directed toward me in a personal manner (without any charity to my side of things) was too much for me to say I enjoyed the round at all.

I expect to keep on playing on Paradise happily, and I really do appreciate your attention to this criticism.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Kugamo
clarifying my message

[necaladun]

Thanks to both @thatdanguy23 and @Kugamofor your responses and graciousness here. It's always a pleasure to deal with polite and rational people in an AC instead of screaming insults followed by a forum ban followed by 3 alt accounts sending me death threats.

 

I've started a guide to CC officers for admins, with the goal of this kind of thing never happening again. The AC involving Fraility showed the need for this too. Nothing Dan did was actually forbidden by admin instructions. Since reviewing it I don't think it would be fair to punish her.

The person most at fault here is the headmin staff, for not making this clear and properly guiding the admins. These kind of guides and instructions are mainly my department - I will take the lions share of the blame here for that, and also because i've been around the longest.

The guide will hopefully cover all of this and hopefully avoid any situations like this in the future.

This is the section on demotion:

 

I would appreciate @Kugamo's feedback on it to see if it would avoid this situation, or if you think I should add more to it to cover it.

[necaladun]

This has been open a bit too long whoops, if @Kugamo you wish any more feedback just pm me or contact me via discord (or another head).