bruhguy1111 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Im so tired of everytime i log in i look at fucking IPC and get disappointed because i wasted months of my life playing a spaceman game just to get karma which i used on a race i dont even use. Please let us refund stuff we buy at any time, maybe to balance it out make it so you can only refund it once, i dont care. But PLEASE its sad seeing so many hours on this autistic game reflected on a fucking robot race, thats all. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyet Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Letting people refund any karma purchase would make karma meaningless. You'd just use something until you were done, refund it, buy something else, use that, refund that, buy a third thing, etc. A more sensible idea would be to let anyone try a karma thing (job/race/whatever) for one shift by paying a fraction of its unlock cost. A sort of limited cost try-before-you-buy thing. But even that is probably out of scope. Jobs are a bit easier than races - you can observe other people doing them. Races are very hard to deal with karma-wise as you can't meaningfully try them first and its hard to know if you'll like them before you play them. 2 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruhguy1111 Posted December 3, 2020 Author Posted December 3, 2020 Well then what if you could only refund races, and also make it so you can only refund the same purchase once? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyet Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 You could still: - Buy A, play A, refund A - Buy B, play B, refund B ...etc With the effect of being able to re-use your karma points a large (but not infinite) number of times. Bear in mind: - I'm not arguing that the karma system is good. I know it is deeply flawed. I've been thinking about ways to reform it but I'm probably not going to get the chance to implement anything on the subject in the near future. - I specifically do agree that its a bit... potentially a let-down to buy something you thought was cool but then it turns out to not be cool. Especially for stuff like races where you can see how they look but you can't really understand how their mechanics feel without playing them. - Unfortunately the two things that are karma locked, jobs and races, both suffer from this problem (potential mechanics you don't appreciate until you play them and feel them). And its somewhat unavoidable without very major changes to the system. - I'm willing to consider changes to the karma system, but like everything else its up against the other >100 PRs on github in terms of priority for dev time. The chances of improving it go up if we can identify a change that is small (both design/code wise) but improves the experience for players significantly. Adding refunds is not really like that - its too complex a topic. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattTheFicus Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) Out of curiosity, regarding the Karma System, what would be the opinion on a Tier Based unlock system rather than a purchase system be? i.e. at certain breakpoints you would unlock a tier of possible unlocks 15 Karma gets you the basic Karma roles (Barber/Brig Doc) 20 gets you IPC 30 gets you Mechanic/SPP 45 gets you the other you didnt pick (SPP/Mechanic) 60 gets you a big Racial unlock (ie Vox/plasmeme/etc) 75 lets you pick Rep/Magi 100 gives you 2 Racial unlocks etc etc Hell, you could add some fluff based karma items with a tier system as such, for those big boi Karma earners. It feels like if the Karma system's main point is to increase the Crew's RP enjoyment and reward those who do so with cooler options, it would stand to be that those who DO earn large amounts of Karma (or imo Reputation would be a better way of putting it) more tools to better the Crew experience. Edited December 3, 2020 by MattTheFicus added a tad more on 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyet Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 I don't think that would be popular, because (for example) some people are really only interested in playing one race, or one job, out of the karma unlocks, and forcing them to unlock a bunch of other stuff first before the unlocks they actually want would not make them happy. It would also require completely re-coding the system to be karma-score-based rather than having a list of unlocks per person. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AffectedArc07 Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Having to account for karma trial purchases or one-time refunds is a horrific idea from a technical standpoint, given it would require vastly tweaking how the DB and game works to suit a very minor group of people. This aint happening. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landerlow Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 You don't play for karma. You play for fun and you get karma if people think you positively contributed to the round. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viz Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 You "wasted months of your life" to get 15 karma in 2d spessmen game? That sounds like a bit of an overdramatization. Hopefully it is. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargh Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 No offense but if it took you "months of your life" to gather 15 karma you're doing something wrong. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruhguy1111 Posted December 11, 2020 Author Posted December 11, 2020 "You "wasted months of your life" to get 15 karma in 2d spessmen game? That sounds like a bit of an overdramatization. Hopefully it is." it is overdramatization Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxy Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) Redacted Edited August 30, 2021 by Boxy Redacted Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-150854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 Honestly, if people did even the slightest bit of research on the wiki or asked around and engaged with the community a bit (which you're meant to do anyways to get karma in the first place), you can make fairly educated decisions on how to spend your karma. IPCs alone have warnings and details on the wiki page, let alone the rampant jokes of tin foil durability and EMPs you see on the discord and such. It's not hard to look at that and understand that it's a rough shift from regular gameplay. Allowing karma refunds is not a wise idea in any regard. 1 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-151624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaty Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/4/2020 at 5:22 AM, Vargh said: No offense but if it took you "months of your life" to gather 15 karma you're doing something wrong. Have had whole months where I have earned a total of 0 karma, its ok to expend a lot of time to get karma if you are just having fun with your characters. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-151630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxy Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) Ive recently been getting a lot of karma as sleuth. although i now try to role-play a lot a thing i didn't do much. i am not sure but i think i got around 9 karma just last week. Edited December 28, 2020 by Boxy Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-151633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robveelben Posted January 9, 2021 Posted January 9, 2021 I am one of the most boring people on the station and even for me getting 5 karma is not hard I think you are just complaining because you are not yet a person who people keep in mind. Most of the times the best way to get karma is to be a expert in one department and have people recognise your skills in it. Take your time to teach people out your own free time and the be the person that help improve others in the game. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/19863-let-me-refund-karma-stuff/#findComment-152044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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