Extended: The Mode

[Lurapa]

Start:

Extended is a game mode that is needed every so often. It enables Engineering to plan, for Science to research, for Medical to hone their crafts. Overall it is a game mode where everyone but Security have meaningful progression. Be it becoming more efficient, trying something new out, or just exploring the Cyberiad as a new player.

The Pros:

- Expand gameplay/skill without hindrance (e.g hijack, assassination target, greytiders [because security can easily react to greytiding without whole other threats using up resources).

- Science/Chemist/Xeno/Botany/Chef/Bartender get to perfect their skills via reagents, npcs. 

The Cons:

- Security suffer from SSD/Cyro. As do Medical. 

 Security need stimulation through prey and hunt. 

  Medical need stimulation through mending/supporting.

Suggestion:

Protect Extended from certain adminbus by introduced guidelines. To help staff understand what sort of adminbus would be appropriate and add to a round, versus take away from a round.

An example of this:

1. Don't give the illusion of Nuke Ops / Wizard / Raging Wizard early into an Extended Round.

Why: Giving the illusion of Nuke Ops / Wizard / Raging Wizard when it is Extended tricks the Crew into - best to put it - a simple mindset. They arm up, they get access/improved access, they ignore aspects of their job they'd otherwise do, Space Law is skirted. And once they defeat the threat, they are left not with a 'Round is restarting in 60 seconds' but the ticking of their shift timer.  The high, the adrenaline drops and dies off. And they're left to wonder - 'was that it?'. As they search for the last Wizard, the last Nuke Op. Surely thinking they missed one.

It's worse if it is the illusion of raging wizard, that is spaced out heavily. With high intensity hijack sabotage at the start, e.g gibbing a Captain, hitting vital areas. Followed by 20 minutes of absent participation and then a low intensity wizard, playing duck duck goose.

2. Use Extended to be creative, to make something that would not be possible in other shifts. There are no threats, there are no hostiles. You are not, as a Staff, screwing over the Greentext of a Changeling, if in fact there is no EoC to screw over.

Why: You can't step on any EoC toes if there are none. Introduce a custom EoC, a janky one thats new, fresh, and has a conclusion or a story to it. The world is your event oyster.

 Use the end-round verb if it dies or something. Or keep it going.

3. Blob and Terror Spiders are wholely acceptable.
Why: They're team-orientated. Medical get to heal, Security get to fight. Science/Cargo/Botany get to put their efforts to use. All-round a very accessible duo of adminbus.

What Made Me Suggest This:

I want extended to be respected as extended, OR, a canvas to produce events on. What often happens is that the paint is flung at the canvas, not applied delicately. You see a Wizard, then a 2nd Wizard, then a Slaughter Demon, then a Blob, then Terror Spiders, then another Wizard.

If I wanted to participate in a Wizard round, I'd happily crew vs wizard. Same with Blob, same with Terrors, same with anything really. The issue is, they have rounds dedicated to them. Or mid-rounds dedicated to them.

And it is not because these occur during extended. But rather they occur at horrible times (low momentum, low motivation crew-wide) or in horrible order. The community have grown to understand if a Wizard appears, it likely means Wiznerd round, that'll conclude asap.

And if it doesnt the Wizard is a lich, OR it's raging Wizard. 

I love what the staff do. It's a hobby, and they're donating their time to the game. But lord, lord do we need some sort of protections for Extended as a vanila game-mode.

This mostly comes from #fatiguedfrompoorlytimedextendedadminbus. Where Security are already defeated not from Antags/EoC, but from SSD and Cyro. And the threat appears to a sleep-walking crew. Or the threat appears as Blob, or Wizard 5 minutes in. Having crew assume, high on adrenaline, that it'll conclude after this hunt n prey combo.

[Spacemanspark]

So, being blunt:

You're not considering the opposite side of this whatsoever, and it's a bit irritating to me. 

To start, yes, I agree that some extended rounds should be left as is. No adminbus, so as to allow players to generate their own stories and characters. This is perfectly fine to expect and want. 

HOWEVER 

In practice, uninterrupted extended rounds typically end in:

1) Mass amounts of greytiding from bored players. Even some veterans do this. 

2) Several players cryoing after a half hour because "nothing is happening" 

3) Deadchat complaining about how bored they are and begging admins to spice things up. 

 

Two of these issues (numbers two and three) can be ignored by staff for the most part, if we want to (and have the ability to withstand deadchat). Sometimes we do and carry on with our own rounds, but some of us find it rather obnoxious. Add to that, we're here to make sure rounds are fun and enjoyable. Extended rounds are also the best round types for events, as we're far less likely to interrupt actual antags (which often ends in a lot of irritation when that happens). 

But what we cannot always ignore is the massive amounts of greytiding. Sure, we can swing a hammer and get whined at even more for interrupting someone's idea of fun, but honestly many of us would rather not do that. Instead, we'd rather give players that don't want to find something to do on their own an option... or at least something to watch. 

Another issue is what some may consider quality of events. I will agree and even admit that sometimes events or minor adminbus don't always contribute very well to an RP environment... but on the other side of the coin, I've actually started massive multi round events that was enjoyed by many players in the past just by chucking something at the wall to see if it sticks. Sometimes the smallest of things we do can lead to bigger things. 

As for the thing you mention with being tricked into thinking it's a different round type... this is what we call "fighting the meta". Yes, it forces people into a specific mindset, that's exactly what we want to happen. It's not only good to reduce meta, it's also quite interesting to see the after effect of how a round continues after such a situation. In other words, its a situation to roleplay within and consider. False alarms can happen. 

In short, yes, some rounds should be left alone to happen as is, but there's far more to this that you fail to consider in the slightest, and I'd ask you to do so. 

[Lurapa]

I'd love to learn more about this topic. I am simply approaching it from a player perspective that almost every extended round is taken with adminbus liberties. It is why I went to a public forum with the suggestion. To create a dialogue. If I am wrong, then I can be corrected and learn from it. With that said fighting the meta of assuming a round type in game is not ideal, at least for me when playing/participating in rounds where that's the method. If it is wizard, or nuke, or blob. They often leave the shift in an irreparable state. Or if it is recoverable, it is often too much of a headache to continue.

Its been years, and its the life-blood of many players, if not all players. When one screams WIZARD, it is like a domino effect. Priorities shift, and the shift becomes a focus of Station Vs Wizard, Station Vs Blob, Station Vs Nuke Ops. Each assumed round-type doing varying levels of harm. That rarely get remedied after the players deal with the threat, and try and continue the shift.

What the focus of this suggestion is. Is to respect the circumstance, don't adminbus after 60 minutes of quiet and 80% of Security is cyro. With the adminbus being something Security would be needed to react to. 

To try and avoid fighting the meta, because the rare extended shift every 2nd day that fights the meta by giving us raging wizard blobs, won't change years of, for lack of better word, indoctrination to how rounds and antags are perceived. 

Extended needs spice, sure. But almost every extended round of recent has been admin bus'd into a chimera of various rounds, instead of extended with event.

I for one hate extended as Security. With or without adminbus presence. Because as you said, with 1). The Greytide often becomes a strong force absent of antags/eoc. So you're already fatigued by the Greytide. And then varying quality of adminbus occur to put the nail in the coffin.

- all in all, I personally don't like the notion of fighting the meta in a game mode like Extended. It would be more reoccuring, more prominent if present in a Discord post or Wiki page, or even a forum post. To redirect the path community takes in regards to meta. 

Like we could nerf the rule that allows Cyberiad meta-knowledge of all antags, and eocs, and how to deal with them. It allows for people to 4th wall meme, 'i heard shifts end after a wizard is skilled, its magic' loosely into IC say.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Lurapa

[Spacemanspark]

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

all in all, I personally don't like the notion of fighting the meta in a game mode like Extended. It would be more reoccuring, more prominent if present in a Discord post or Wiki page, or even a forum post. To redirect the path community takes in regards to meta

I think a language barrier is interfering with what you're trying to say. I assume this means that we would somehow fight meta via making posts about it somewhere? 

We've tried that and other similar methods. The best way to dissipate meta is to do it live and subvert expectations. This changes mindsets and causes players to act as they would in a natural sense, while throwing a wrench into typical behavior. 

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

Like we could nerf the rule that allows Cyberiad meta-knowledge of all antags, and eocs, and how to deal with them. It allows for people to 4th wall meme, 'i heard shifts end after a wizard is skilled, its magic' loosely into IC say.

I believe you're trying to say "Tighten up on the enforcement of meta knowledge" 

This has also been suggested time and time again, and has been discussed at length by heads, staff and players. I do not believe this will be changing anytime soon. 

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

To try and avoid fighting the meta, because the rare extended shift every 2nd day that fights the meta by giving us raging wizard blobs, won't change years of, for lack of better word, indoctrination to how rounds and antags are perceived

You'd be surprised. 

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

With that said fighting the meta of assuming a round type in game is not ideal, at least for me when playing/participating in rounds where that's the method.

It's not meant to be 'ideal'. Rounds should not be static and one shouldn't expect anything when going into a new round. 

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

What the focus of this suggestion is. Is to respect the circumstance, don't adminbus after 60 minutes of quiet and 80% of Security is cyro. With the adminbus being something Security would be needed to react to. 

Provided they aren't murderbone events, this is actually the better time to push an event to keep the round going, if we so choose. 

Again, if a round grows stale due to some reason or another, we can and will sometimes step in to bolster it. Sometimes events flop, it happens. But it's far better for us to try than to have the entire playerbase begging us to do something repeatedly throughout the round. I can only roll my eyes and contain the will to mute deadchat for so long while also somewhat sympathizing with them. Sometimes I do things off station in the admin test room for them, but typically I'll still see players cryoing or logging out in a small stream. 

Personally, when I play extended myself I can always find something to do, either a project or finding another player to roleplay around with--but many, if not most players do not wish to do the same, for various reasons. 

15 hours ago, Lurapa said:

Extended needs spice, sure. But almost every extended round of recent has been admin bus'd into a chimera of various rounds, instead of extended with event.

This seems to be our sole area of agreement. I can agree that we should allow some extended rounds to be left alone and untouched, to let them play out as is without interfering. 

 

However, I still feel you lack a lot of thought for both sides, again. We are expected to keep rounds fun and interesting for those involved. If a mass amount of players are bored, it falls to us to decide on what to do about it. 

[BryanR]

17 hours ago, Lurapa said:

What the focus of this suggestion is. Is to respect the circumstance, don't adminbus after 60 minutes of quiet and 80% of Security is cyro. With the adminbus being something Security would be needed to react to. 

I assume you mean adminbus that has violence. Funny enough most of my events are story driven. (Democracy comes to Cyberiad, Windle the dementia suffering wizard) where inevitably I get tickets submitted asking if some form of violence or aggression is alright. Quite a few sometimes.

Its unreasonable for you to believe that in extended its the admins who are bloodthirsty with our events when its quite equally balanced if not more in favor from the player base.

In fact how I run my senate events, I get a handful of players whinging and going to cryo because they don't want to participate in something solely driven by their own stories.

Tldr: Some people like stories they make themselves. Some better enjoy being guided by a plan.