pineapplesalad

[Alicesheckles]

Admin(s) Key: pineapplesalad
Your ckey (Byond username): alicesheckles
Your Discord name (if applicable): morgan

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 2/25/2021 around 1:30

Nature of complaint:
 clarification required, feedback, other
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: also i figured out the round ID it was 25965

 

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): permabanned without even a boink for something i dident even know or remember being warned about

Full description of events: i filled the bar tables with clones of myself using monkey cubes and strange reagent after which another crewmember asked if they can barrow me they then took me to genetics after asking for me SE i then infromed him he dident need to do that i then gave him some strange reagent after he asked to be turned into me after which he started recruiting more crew to become a copy of me well i sat in the bar conversing with the interested crew as they seemed to enjoy the sight only to after about 20 or 30 minutes of this and me occasionly turning people into me after i asked if they wanted to join then without warning i got the message

You have been banned by pineapplesalad.
Reason: Has a previous warning for making many many clones of herself, yet did it again. Filled the bar with many many many clones of herself, along with a few players also being Morgan Pink. Banned till appealed..

i also would like to explain my actions as from what i understood of it what i was doing was only a problem if i was forcing crew into it as a non antag since in the past i have done the same and kyet had actually involved himself in a positive manner calling it the pinkening and making my monkey clones speak in unison

i would like to clarify my only real problem with this was not being given a chance to explain myself and i understand the reasoning behind the ban but i do still feel unfairly treated because of the suddenness of the ban

[Alicesheckles]

https://imgur.com/a/wJ2aHQ2

[Pineapple Salad]

Admin's version of events: I saw many clones of the same person, and checked the notes of the person who made them, and saw a note saying, "Likes to leave mutagen pills that mutate folks into her character, Morgan Pink. It has sufficantly pissed people off enough to warrant ahelps on it. Warned to never do it again without personal management on her mutation pills." so I banned said user.

Admin's reasoning for actions: I saw it being discussed among other staff members, and keeping in mind that I am still in my trial phase and learning, I tend to really take in and embrace tips from other more experienced members of staff, and decided to just go for the ban. As a brand new admin who still has quite the bit of inexperience, I had this idea in my head that after a person has been warned about something already, there's no need to message them again before the ban, because at that point it'd be better to discuss things on the forums.

Acknowledgement of wrongdoing or disputing of: Hey. First and foremost, I'd like to apologize. I acknowledge my mistakes here, and should've messaged you first. I'd like to also say that even if I was encouraged to swing the ban hammer, the one who encouraged me is absolutely not at fault here because I was the one to make the decision to go through with it without speaking to you first.

In the section above, I said;

Quote

I had this idea in my head that after a person has been warned about something already, there's no need to message them again before the ban, because at that point it'd be better to discuss things on the forums.

and I now realize it's wrong to think like that, and I should always try to PM a person first.

I fully acknowledge this admin complaint, and I'll learn from this experience.

[Alicesheckles]

thankyou for the apology and reflecting on the situation i do understand how this can make securitys job it can make it harder to do there job especialy if this were a more chaotic round and it could cause problems for command to the point were it might cause an issue making it harder to determine guilty partys IC which is why i will refrain from doing it outside antag rolls or admin permission, at the time i viewed it as a fun way to replicate a previous "event" 

[Alicesheckles]

im not entirly shure of the process for handling this but from my perspective this is resolved so unless one of the headmins or other admins have something they want to add it would be nice if this was closed so my appeal can be processed now that i have slept on it

[Alicesheckles]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:27 PM, Pineapple Salad said:

Admin's version of events: I saw many clones of the same person, and checked the notes of the person who made them, and saw a note saying, "Likes to leave mutagen pills that mutate folks into her character, Morgan Pink. It has sufficantly pissed people off enough to warrant ahelps on it. Warned to never do it again without personal management on her mutation pills." so I banned said user.

i wanted to just underline a part of that because i think its important to the situation considering i only did it to other players if they were willing and it says nothing about clones from monkeys but i dont want to rules laywer

[Alicesheckles]

actually no that is a bit of rules lawyering but i believe its a good point especialy considering i wasent given a chance to explain myself i will still maintain my promise to not do it anymore without admin permision or as an antag and the ban will be a good reminder of that but since i was apologized i dont wanna cause any issues for pineapple since i feel it was more a possible misunderstanding then anything

[Pineapple Salad]

2 hours ago, Alicesheckles said:

i wanted to just underline a part of that because i think its important to the situation considering i only did it to other players if they were willing and it says nothing about clones from monkeys but i dont want to rules laywer

I mean, read the sentence you just underlined. "Warned to never do it again without personal management on her mutation pills" People may have been willing to take the pills, but the thing is, personal management. Can you honestly say you were personally managing where each mutation pill goes? (Or UI injector, they do the exact same thing really.) The reason that admins are against doing this type of thing is because it causes a lot of headache inducing issues.

Here are some examples;

Imagine this right, One of your clones is going around committing crimes. Sec can't set them to arrest, because many people are also the same person, including two of their own. Sec can never figure out which one's doing the crimes, they'll just keep getting away with it and at that point itd be out of secs hands unless they arrest every single person who looks like you. 

Imagine if an antagonist has you as their target, and they see many many people with your identity walking around. Who do they kill? He doesn't know who to kill, there's nothing he could do. 

Imagine if an antagonist has someone else as a target. Now think about if that target randomly goes ahead and takes one of these pills or injectors to become you, it becomes the same situation as the one above. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to do that if you know you're being hunted, but I am saying that it's wack if you don't know that, and just go ahead and make it impossible for the antag to even try and assassinate you. 

 

Look, I messed up. I made a mistake, I didn't message you when I should've, and I really truly am sorry about that. However, I don't think I misunderstood the note written for you. I didn't have bad intentions, I truly just wanted to do what admins are supposed to do, and do what I can to maintain and safeguard the server.

[Alicesheckles]

no problem i was just overthinking it and after thinking about it more i understood that it was just somthing i wanted to highlight because i felt it reinforced my point on the subject and since i dident make this arguing the ban itself i just feel like it merited pointing out because i felt it reinforced my point that i should have bin given an opportunity to explain myself since i think if i was messaged i think the whole situation could have bin avoided or even mitigated to something like a day ban or note instead and im not shure if i have had any trouble with listening to admins and untill i actually read the note i forgot entirly about the previous incident since it was like 6 or 7 months prior if i remember the timeframe right and as it said i was leaving the pills just randomly around and dident label them as such if i remember it right making it even worse for the people that ate the floor pills and i wont pretend them being floor pills is a good excuse since we both know some players cant help themselves

[Alicesheckles]

part of it is also me getting a little impatient since this being processed is taking longer then i expected thus making the ban take longer to appeal and the apology made my objections moot i also appreciate that you have bin so upfront with me regardless of the results of my appeal

[necaladun]

Hi there,

Apologies for the delay in getting to this, it's been a rather chaotic past few weeks for me and the other heads.

It's very clear to me you're a reasonable person willing to discuss things and understand the issues. I've lifted the ban and will treat this as an appeal as well. You're clearly not a griefer or the like.

@Pineapple Salad is very new as an admin, so I've somewhat let them respond to this as a bit of a test - I intended to deal with it earlier but IRL got in the way, you have my apologies there.

The main feedback I'd like to give him is as follows: A warning of something niche and minor over a year ago is easy for us to pick up in notes but not for the players to remember, and that this appears to be in the spirit of sillyness rather than maliciousness. Pineapple has some valid points to the issue itself, and why it should not be repeated - but I don't think needed to go straight for the ban, considering your record.

Complaint is with mixed merit - yes, you were in the wrong to do that somewhat, but it was not as serious an issue as was made out, and wasn't needed to be as harsh. 

Mistakes have been admitted to, I think both of you have learned - I'll leave it open though in case @Alicesheckles wishes to comment further.

[Alicesheckles]

im good just happy to be able to play on the server again

[BryanR]

Filing under resolved.