Make Antags That End The Round On Death Call An End Round Vote Instead

[Veterankyl]

I'm sure you're familiar with the Wizard any% speedrun. Things start quiet, suddenly wizard is called out on comms, and then the end of round results pop up. This can also apply to other antags such as Shadowlings and blobs, where the round can end very quickly and abruptly. This can be annoying for the crew, as it cuts the round short in the middle of things like research, construction, or RP.

My idea for a solution is make it so the end round vote for the shuttle is automatically called instead of ending the round immediately. Should the crew wish to continue with the round, they'll be free to do so. If the crew wishes to end early, such as due to station damages or exhaustion after the fight, they have the option to vote for it.

This could either be implemented as is, with the standard end round vote being called, followed by the shuttle call if it passes. If more flavor/RP explanation is needed, then automatic announcements could be attached to it giving explanations such as "Command has deemed the damages minimal and not requiring an early end to the shift." Or "Command has decided to end the shift early due to damages to station assets."

[S34N]

One problem I can see with this is players "metagaming" the fact that its now an extended round. I think most of sec would cryo, players might start doing silly stuff knowing they wont get mistaken for an antag, etc.

[Spacemanspark]

Add a chance to randomly introduce other antagonists (traitor/ changeling/ vampires) and you'd likely erase most meta issues. 

[S34N]

Just now, Spacemanspark said:

Add a chance to randomly introduce other antagonists (traitor/ changeling/ vampires) and you'd likely erase most meta issues. 

This sounds like dynamic, and I like it ;)

[Fraility]

50 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

Add a chance to randomly introduce other antagonists (traitor/ changeling/ vampires) and you'd likely erase most meta issues. 

but then you have the issue of security and medical potentially having wizard gear (wands and staffs) and antags having to fight against that.

[Charliminator]

18 minutes ago, Fraility said:

but then you have the issue of security and medical potentially having wizard gear (wands and staffs) and antags having to fight against that.

Make wizards (and there items) dust on death. So when the wizard dies, all of its stuff disappears.

[necaladun]

1 hour ago, S34N said:

This sounds like dynamic

This to me seems the best solution to this but a bunch of other things.

[Viz]

5 minutes ago, Charliminator said:

Make wizards (and there items) dust on death. So when the wizard dies, all of its stuff disappears.

Or make them check if a wizard is using them and fail, perhaps spectacularly, if not. 

 

Yes, I'm aware of the lavaland consequences! >:) 

[Charliminator]

Dynamic isn't quite possible rn but- soon™?

 

It would solve a lot of issues- however it might cause some others, such as cult traitors being too powerful? But that's a topic fit for another thread

 

[necaladun]

Yeah pretty much - it will need a fair few tweaks, but ultimately the idea behind it is solid and should help a lot of issues like the ones mentioned by OP, as well as meta-issues.

 

[SabreML]

I’ve been wanting to implement this idea for ages now, so I’m definitely in favour.

The amount of times I’ve seen people get upset in OOC that their building project got cut off, or that they just lost the syndi duffelbag, two pairs of noslips and a voice changer that they found in maintenance because the wizard died (speaking from experience) is way too high.

Edited June 16, 2021 by SabreML

[henri215]

Round is really necessary to end on shadowling defeat? i cant really see any permanent damage to the shift

[ItsMarmite]

A lot of dead/perma killed/spaced security if its a very close defeat.

OF COURSE, COULD ALWAYS MAKE IT SO SHADOWLINGS COULD BREAK MINDSHIELD.

. . . 

Perhaps?

[henri215]

7 minutes ago, ItsMarmite said:

A lot of dead/perma killed/spaced security if its a very close defeat.

OF COURSE, COULD ALWAYS MAKE IT SO SHADOWLINGS COULD BREAK MINDSHIELD.

. . . 

Perhaps?

 Mindshield can be replaced, and it can be up to command to decide for shuttle or not if alot of sec is dead.

[Esenno]

2 hours ago, ItsMarmite said:

OF COURSE, COULD ALWAYS MAKE IT SO SHADOWLINGS COULD BREAK MINDSHIELD.

I'm pretty sure we already did that. And it ended absolutely horribly. All it did was create a new meta of slings bum rushing sec for thralls that could capture new thralls with out needing to craft stun prods and cable cuffs. 

 

Also I like this idea but I feel it really won't matter. Looking at round end votes the only times it won't just auto end is if there's an event going on that a lot of crew likes, or if there is already a midround like t-spiders with a lot of living spiders and/or ghosts wanting to midround.

[Veterankyl]

1 hour ago, Esenno said:

Also I like this idea but I feel it really won't matter. Looking at round end votes the only times it won't just auto end is if there's an event going on that a lot of crew likes, or if there is already a midround like t-spiders with a lot of living spiders and/or ghosts wanting to midround.

I think it would depend on how much time is left in the round. Sure, folks may want to end the round if an hour has passed already, but if it's been less than 30 minutes, I think most would want to continue so their construction/research/RP stuff doesn't go to waste. I've seen people openly announce that they're not gonna do any work because there's a wizard and the shift will likely end very quickly. At least having the option to continue the round would mean people would still have reason to work and not see that effort cut off abruptly.

[McRamon]

So upon death of a wizard/bolb/whatever you start technically a fresh round, where: half the windows on station are broken for spears, crew runs around random places while being armed, some people might have weird access added, armory is empty, etc. Tbf, i'd rather start a fresh round.

[Carthusia]

Ive always wanted somthing like this, and the idea that say, the round ender antag dies, ramp up the % chance of an even worse antag comming around later for the mid round, possibly mixed with other types.

[henri215]

1 hour ago, McRamon said:

So upon death of a wizard/bolb/whatever you start technically a fresh round, where: half the windows on station are broken for spears, crew runs around random places while being armed, some people might have weird access added, armory is empty, etc. Tbf, i'd rather start a fresh round.

Sometimes wizards dies before doing any kind of serious damage to the station/crew, in those cases it would be possible for the round to continue.

[Charliminator]

16 minutes ago, henri215 said:

Sometimes wizards dies before doing any kind of serious damage to the station/crew, in those cases it would be possible for the round to continue.

Even then, crew will meta it being extendo basically and then either cryo or sit around twiddling their thumbs because they all just came down off their unga sugar rush.

[Spacemanspark]

On 6/16/2021 at 3:36 AM, Fraility said:

but then you have the issue of security and medical potentially having wizard gear (wands and staffs) and antags having to fight against that.

Fuck it, then, throw the book at them. Give the traitors more TC, have an extra smaller chance for extra side antagonists to spawn (swarmers or terrors, for example). 

Alternatively, have the wizard's death automatically render useless all the items they've exclusively summoned. Fizzle out, delete, explode, whatever... although, granted, this would likely be quite difficult to code. It would, perhaps, be the better response. 

9 hours ago, Charliminator said:

Even then, crew will meta it being extendo basically and then either cryo or sit around twiddling their thumbs because they all just came down off their unga sugar rush.

At first, yes--until the feature becomes more well known. 

 

That said... if someone goes "well, wizard is dead mission accomplished okay bye" and cryos out, I'd be more oriented to say the round is better off without that person. It's not that difficult to find something to do that doesn't involve killing an antagonist. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Spacemanspark

[PacifistDalek]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:36 AM, Fraility said:

but then you have the issue of security and medical potentially having wizard gear (wands and staffs) and antags having to fight against that.

Never know, the antags could end up with the wizard gear too... I'd say it just makes the round more interesting for all!