Replace IPC Box Items

[Sweaterkittens]

On 7/26/2021 at 2:53 AM, Woje said:

Further negating the need for roundstart tools. IPCs simply do not have a reason to own an emergency internals box to begin with. The fact that they spawn with one is already free unneeded stuff. They do not breathe.

I mean, yeah, I ultimately feel neutral about this kind of change because it makes sense but it's also super easy to get those things. That's kind of my point though, the aggressive opposition to this suggestion doesn't really make sense to me because it wouldn't really change that much or provide any sort of serious boon. I would still go to tool storage first thing and get a real welder and more cable anyway.

[MarsMond]

IPCs not getting an oxygen would make sense, the emergency autoinjector is to stabilize. It deals with oxygen damage, which would kill you when in crit. So it's often for someone else, not for yourself. If there was a chem that stopped an IPC from deteriorating in crit, everyone should be getting an injector.

But it's also the difference between IPCs and "normal" organics. If an organics gets heavily damaged, every second counts for recovery. An IPC can "just" be rebooted whenever. So in the end, why would NT invest in that? I think a small welder and a few cables (under 15, to stop every IPC from having cable cuffs roundstart) would be more like gauze and ointment in the box, as that can heal. But even these are very rare, basically only in emergency nanomeds, which in itself are rare.

[destinycall]

The rarity of bandages/gauze has little to do with their medical value so I don't understand why that is relevant.  Unless I am mistake, they are one of the weakest medical items available to organics.  Even basic medkits don't carry them, in favor of heal/burn patches.

When you think about it, all healing items are "rare" compared with the common items used to repair robots and cyborgs.   You can find cable coils and welding tools just laying around on the floor or in any random closet or maintainance tunnel   It isn't a fair comparison - treating a welding tool as equivalent to a similar medical item for organics will always end up with the welder looking OP, since organic healing items are harder to find and limited-use.   I don't see the problem with giving IPCs an "emergency repairs" box with a weak welder and some cable coils.   It is NOT the same as filling the box with nanopaste, which actually IS a rare healing item for robots.  

An oxygen box for IPCs doesn't make sense, just like it makes no sense to give an oxygen tank to Vox or Plasmamen, unless you are trying to hurt them.  But simply removing the entire box is the least interesting solution to the problem.   I would much rather see a species-specific box provided that takes into account the special needs of mechanical crew and helps players stay in the round a little longer.   It is not possible to give IPCs an exact equivalent to the oxygen tank/mask and emergency epipen because they do not suffer oxygen damage.   But an emergency repairs kit is in the same spirit, offering the crew member emergency protection from common space hazards so they can get back to work, more or less in one piece.

The weak tools provided in the emergency box would be inferior to standard tools/supplies that are readily available around the station at round start.   I do not see how this can be seen as an unfair advantage for IPCs.   Most players would probably upgrade to something better very quickly, since the small fuel supply won't last long if you actually end up using it.   The emergency repairs box is just a nice insurance policy, in case you are caught off-guard and need urgent repairs or find yourself in a location far from aid and supplies. 

[Sweaterkittens]

6 hours ago, destinycall said:

lWhen you think about it, all healing items are "rare" compared with the common items used to repair robots and cyborgs.   You can find cable coils and welding tools just laying around on the floor or in any random closet or maintainance tunnel   It isn't a fair comparison - treating a welding tool as equivalent to a similar medical item for organics will always end up with the welder looking OP, since organic healing items are harder to find and limited-use.   I don't see the problem with giving IPCs an "emergency repairs" box with a weak welder and some cable coils.   It is NOT the same as filling the box with nanopaste, which actually IS a rare healing item for robots. 

I feel like this can't be said enough. IPC's and organics use wildly different health systems (relatively speaking) and the rarity, necessity, and benefit of those healing items are also very different. 

This may begin to go beyond the scope of this suggestion thread, but if people are adamantly opposed to including even an emergency welder + stack of cable coil in the box, what about the creation of a new item that is less reusable than both of those, but serves the same purpose (i.e. emergency repairs). Something like a patch kit, that when used on the upper body or other injured body part, after a short delay (similar to self-applying wires or a welding tool) repairs a bit of both burn and brute damage. Maybe not as effective as using each individually, only single-use, but great for "I'm about to go into crit and die" - the same reason that organics use their autoinjector. Hell, it could even have a mechanic where the healing is only temporary health, as a result of it just being a "patch" kit, and will deteriorate or disappear completely if the damage isn't repaired in a more permanent fashion.

 

While it's not a huge difference, it would be fun, and it would give every race something unique in their starting box, which would be nice. 

[MattTheFicus]

The difference I see is that for organics, NewCrit is a very real thing that you can still deal with personally (barring RNG slapping you with chainstuns). IPCs on the other had do not have NewCrit, they have OldCrit, which means once you hit Crit, youre down on the floor and cant even help yourself.

This goes back to the idea that the Epi Injector is meant for other people rather than yourself most of the time. There's no reason to put an IPC-specific pen in there due to the lack of applicable situations where you'd use it that you cant use tools instead.

TLDR: IPCs dont have NewCrit, therefore dont have a use for a personal "epipen"

[Sweaterkittens]

17 hours ago, MattTheFicus said:

The difference I see is that for organics, NewCrit is a very real thing that you can still deal with personally (barring RNG slapping you with chainstuns). IPCs on the other had do not have NewCrit, they have OldCrit, which means once you hit Crit, youre down on the floor and cant even help yourself.

This goes back to the idea that the Epi Injector is meant for other people rather than yourself most of the time. There's no reason to put an IPC-specific pen in there due to the lack of applicable situations where you'd use it that you cant use tools instead.

TLDR: IPCs dont have NewCrit, therefore dont have a use for a personal "epipen"

That was my thought behind some sort of single-use patch kit that could be used to try and keep you out of crit. If you don't have tools, or don't want to carry them for RP purposes, a single use kit could be the difference between falling into crit and having just enough help to limp to robotics or to someone who can help you.

I agree that the two crit systems (and therefore how healing effects you during each) are pretty different and it's hard to draw any sort of equivalency.

[AffectedArc07]

Something else to be considered in this entire debate. 
 

A lot of the autoinjector use is on other people, you can’t exactly stab yourself with it if you’re in crit, however anyone who finds your corpse after you’ve been in a breach for too long can easily just smack you with the injector they have. 
 

 

Consider the full use of the autoinjector in this thread. 

[Viz]

3 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

A lot of the autoinjector use is on other people, you can’t exactly stab yourself with it if you’re in crit

Not entirely sure I understand what you mean by this. Fleshy people easily can and usually do since they got newcrit. But if we're considering a special autoinjector, yeah that wouldn't really work for an IPC.

[AffectedArc07]

Just now, Woje said:

Not entirely sure I understand what you mean by this. Fleshy people easily can and usually do since they got newcrit. But if we're considering a special autoinjector, yeah that wouldn't really work for an IPC.

What I am saying is that the autoinjector isn't just for you, its for the rest of your crew as well, so it still makes sense for an IPC to have one, incase they come across someone in critical condition.

[Viz]

Ah then yeah. I agree and I've said that before, IPCs have no use for an emergency internals box like the others. The fact that they get one is essentially a free bonus so you can help others.

[Esenno]

Meanwhile I guess I'm in the minority of IPCs for genuinely not caring about having a box of healing items because if I feel I need them more often than not you've got a cargo tech who knows about IPCs or just doesn't care enough to ask questions and it's only a minor inconvenience. But I also don't make it a point to always be prepared for if I get hurt. Personally? I like having the box as it is. Because I have a box of emergency supplies in case, say, some one releases N2O on the station and I stumble across some one choking I don't need to waste time getting their box.

[Charliminator]

Another thing to be noted. After cult summons, harvesters release knockout gas which effects IPCs and the only way to block it is internals.