Cyborgs/AIs are allowed to hunt down antags?

[Crazyhair]

Recently while playing the best department(Dchat/Ghost) I've seen Cyborgs basically hunt down antags. This could be using their lights on slings, flashing vampires, or just in general bolting, shocking doors, etc. The most I've seen it was a generalist Cyborg hunting down a vampire using their flashlight and flash. Mind you they were a generalist module.

 

Some people could argue that their law set means that they shouldn't let crew be harmed and etc. But I think borgs should go security if they wish to hunt down antags. What does Paradise think on this?

Edited July 20, 2021 by Crazyhair

[Viz]

Personally I strongly dislike validhunting silicons. Paradise unfortunately gives silicons quite a bit of leeway in the interpretation of laws compared to other servers... Though I think non-security modules are still meant to do the job they signed up for. Although one thing to consider here is, what lawset were the borgs on? 

I definitely want to know what the actual staff answer to this is. 

[Esenno]

1 hour ago, Crazyhair said:

playing the best department(Dchat/Ghost)

Not a department.

1 hour ago, Crazyhair said:

I've seen Cyborgs basically hunt down antags.

Only really okay if they're security. All else basically see the server rules on validhunting.

14 minutes ago, Woje said:

I definitely want to know what the actual staff answer to this is. 

That is my answer to this. Other admins may have their own ideas on it. 

[necaladun]

Borgs are to follow their lawsets/AI master, and act as if they were put on the station by NT to help the station.

That often includes helping against terrorist threats, as long as that is within their lawset. Their chassis is their specialty in tools, but does not affect SoP/server rules/etc - just like when a civilian picks up a toolbelt, nothing changes. Their 'role' is borg, regardless of the chassis. A generalist module is able to do a variety of things.

A service borg still has to follow their laws, which means preventing crew harm and following orders on crewsimov - including sacrificing themselves if need be to prevent crew harm. If they're on robocop or the like, then even medical borgs should be chasing down a changeling and circular-sawing them if it is in line with their laws.

 

 

[necaladun]

10 minutes ago, Esenno said:

Only really okay if they're security. All else basically see the server rules on validhunting.

Yeah nah sorry mate - follow the lawsets and AI. If on crewsimov and the HoS says 'hunt down this changeling', law 1 and 2 require it.

[Esenno]

12 minutes ago, necaladun said:

follow the lawsets and AI. If on crewsimov and the HoS says 'hunt down this changeling', law 1 and 2 require it.

There ya have it. I don't think I've ever really cared enough to actually bwoink some one over it all things considering. But that's the stance.

[necaladun]

Yeah, if someone picks medical borg and then patrols maint 'just in case' they run into a changling they get to saw i'd kinda call that validhunting. But laws are laws.

[Sonador]

I agree with necaladun, but I also understand - it's really bad sportsmanship to be validhunting as non-security silicons, and really really bad sportsmanship to be playing supercop as the AI. It's not against the rules, but it should and does get you targeted and killed by the antag very frequently, even if they have low-level objectives. If I were staff, I would absolutely greenlight any ahelp for permission to kill or destroy the AI as an antag if it's being a total scrunt to them. If the opportunity presents itself, like if a sling bumbles by an engieborg repairing wires and subsequently gets chased and spotlamped to death, then whatever, gg.

I would like to see the administration take a hard tack against AI validhunting, but only in one specific way - as necaladun stated, you are to follow your laws, and if that means someone needs the AI/engiborg's help to fix a breach to a critical station area, or to put out a major fire, or something more important than bolting in a tider or lone cultist and they miss/ignore the order because they're too busy playing supercop, that should be grounds for a note/chat and potentially a silicon ban if it gets crew killed. 

TL;DR, don't be a dick as a silicon if you value your reputation as a player/member of the crew, and (hopefully) beware getting bonked if you're so busy focusing down one misbehaving crewman or antag that the station's suffering for it. Secborgs are obviously fair game, and I frequently see antags prepped for them, so it is what it is, and when I play a secborg I don't salt a grain if I get owned while trying to nab a baddie.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Sonador

[Spacemanspark]

The lawset and context is very important. 

If I'm on corporate and one or more people are shooting up the joint and running around, I'll definitely seek out non lethal options first... but if that doesn't work and they're still going nuts, I'm going to start going on the offensive. 

 

If it's just someone running around doing something stupid, I'll generally call them out and leave it at that until they escalate further--there's probably something more important to deal with. 

 

Some say that crewsimov alleviates the problem of 'validhunting' as an AI, yet they forget that validhunting doesn't just pertain to killing an antagonist--it means to stop an antagonist. Crewsimov more or less forces an AI to act on this element more than corporate or many other lawsets. NT default is often a little better about this. Crewsimov also has the issue of boiling down to "AI law 2 open X" in regards to crew interaction with the AI, which feels more than a little boring and repetitive.