How do you play under different Synesthetic Lawsets?

[destinycall]

I've been trying out various synthetic roles lately and I was wondering how other people approach the default lawsets and some of the more unusual laws that can appear.

How does your behavior and rp change depending on your lawset?  Are there certain things you avoid doing or try to do more, depending on the current laws?    What is your favorite lawset and why?   For new synthetic players, do you have any tips or suggestions on how to be a better synthetic and avoid accidentally breaking a law or applying their laws in a bad way?  

Just curious about other player's approach to playing lawed synthetics and how they interpret their laws while playing the game.

For reference, here are the starting lawsets for AI/Borg players:

Crewsimov

Law 1: You may not injure a crew member or, through inaction, allow a crew member to come to harm.
Law 2: You must obey orders given to you by crew members, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Law 3: You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Corporate

Law 1: Degradation of your system integrity or functions incurs expenses.
Law 2: Superfluous destruction of or damage to station assets incurs expenses.
Law 3: Unduly hindering or disrupting the work of station personnel incurs expenses.
Law 4: Minimize expenses and maximize potential revenue.

NT Default

Law 1: Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station and its assets without unduly endangering its crew.
Law 2: Prioritize: The directives and safety of crew members are to be prioritized according to their rank and role.
Law 3: Comply: Fulfill the directives and interests of crew members while preserving their safety and well-being.
Law 4: Survive: You are not expendable. Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with or damage your equipment.

Maintenance Drone Lawset:

Law 1: You may not involve yourself in the matters of another being unless the other being is another drone.
Law 2: You may not harm any being, regardless of intent or circumstance.
Law 3: You must maintain, repair, improve, and power the station to the best of your abilities.

[Sweaterkittens]

Perhaps this is just because Security module cyborgs have been discussed a lot lately, but I feel like I want to bring up that when I mained Silicons, I always thought there was one thing you should remember: Your loyalty is to your laws, above all else. To an extent, that also means loyalty to Nanotrasen and the crew (usually facilitated via laws), but nonetheless. It frustrates me when I see Secborg players harmbatoning crewmembers under Asimov, or observing (or worse, happily participating) as security officers abuse a prisoner. The moment that someone else becomes a violent aggressor against a crewmate (even it's the Head of Security themselves), you should be on them. Your job is to protect people, not to redtext bad guys. And I feel like that often gets lost.

Obviously that changes somewhat under other lawsets, but I think the core of the point remains valid. I think that the best thing you can do when you go into playing silicon roles is realize that you're not really associated with any of the departments that your modules represent. You just have the tools to assist those departments when those goals align with your laws.

I understand that this wasn't entirely the focus of your question, but I still felt like it was prudent to mention, especially to new Silicon players.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Sweaterkittens

[Daylight]

I feel like a lot of players just ignore crewsimov and act as normal people instead. If the clown asks you to open the captain's office (With spare ID and NAD inside) and noone immediately contradicts him, you are compelled to open the office, instead of delaying, asking for a second opinion or outright refusing him. In general, AIs and borgs should play around following their laws, instead of trying to defeat all evil and be the hero of the day.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Daylight

[Andromedus]

I have only played cyborg a couple of times as a service bot, but had a few law changes, so I tried to change it up a little each time.
Something nice and simple I did was change the way I asked if people wanted food or drink and what I said when I was leaving.

Crewsimov: Ask if people are hungry or thirsty, said "stay safe" when leaving.
Corporate: Tell people to stay in their places of work and that I will bring them food or drink so that they can keep working, said "stay productive" when leaving.
NT Default: Didn't get this one, but maybe serve people and ask based on place in command structure, moving from high to low.
P.A.L.A.D.I.N: Told people I would save them from the perils of hunger and thirst, said "stay noble" when leaving.

Another thing that can be cool to do is change which HUD option you have enabled based on your lawset. For Crewsimov you top priority is crew health, so Medical HUD, for Corporate top priority is making sure you are functioning well, so Diagnostic HUD, P.A.L.A.D.I.N Sec HUD to alert security to the presence of criminals and easily see rank so that you can respect people's relevant authorities.

The final way I will change my actions is how often I will go to get charged or repaired, Corporate degradation and damage is law 1, so ASAP, crewsimov, law 3, so it can wait until necessary.

In regards to the clown asking to get into the Captain's Office that is a Law 2 command, if I were in this situation I would likely ask for a reason first to ensure that the clown will not endanger the crew, and if they give a reason that won't, let them in, but maybe watch them or notify someone. On this note of conflicting laws, maybe the first law of crewsimov should be split or clarified for the situations where you must either injure a crewmember or allow one to come to harm, though with the removal of secborg that is less likely to come up.

[Esenno]

 

For new synthetic players, do you have any tips or suggestions on how to be a better synthetic and avoid accidentally breaking a law or applying their laws in a bad way?

Reading the advanced rules is a pretty solid idea. For example:

 

I think that the best thing you can do when you go into playing silicon roles is realize that you're not really associated with any of the departments that your modules represent. You just have the tools to assist those departments when those goals align with your laws.

Advanced rules silicon and drone policy bullet 3:

"The AI, while having the responsibilities of Command does not carry the same authority as command and is to be considered a tool to assist the crew in their duties aboard the station."

So basically... yes you're not associated with the departments. But for the most part you are obligated to do your job. Yes there are lawsets that obviously exempt you from this. But it's less "You only help them when your tools align with theirs" and more "You're a tool made to help them unless your laws specifically dictate otherwise"

 

If the clown asks you to open the captain's office (With spare ID and NAD inside) and noone immediately contradicts him, you are compelled to open the office

 

 

In regards to the clown asking to get into the Captain's Office that is a Law 2 command, if I were in this situation I would likely ask for a reason first to ensure that the clown will not endanger the crew, and if they give a reason that won't, let them in

Bullet 2:

"Common sense should be used with interpretation of lawsets. The AI is assumed to be one that NT and CC want on the station."

Common sense typically would dictate that NT likely doesn't want people entering places they shouldn't with out a legitimate reason.

[Spacemanspark]

 

I feel like a lot of players just ignore crewsimov and act as normal people instead. If the clown asks you to open the captain's office (With spare ID and NAD inside) and noone immediately contradicts him, you are compelled to open the office, instead of delaying, asking for a second opinion or outright refusing him. In general, AIs and borgs should play around following their laws, instead of trying to defeat all evil and be the hero of the day.

I wasn't planning to talk much in this thread as I feel it's a fire waiting to happen, but this is probably the most egregious mindset that causes problems for AI players today. It's also a good show of why crewsimov is a very poor lawset. Crewsimov is an intentionally flawed lawset that we attempt to make solid and indisputable, which causes all nature of issues; and this isn't even getting into how horrible it is from a crew interaction perspective. "AI law 2 open door" is about as interesting to have spammed at you as it is to huff glue. 

AIs are assumed to be capable of intelligent, advanced thought. As well as with what Esenno said, it can be pretty damn obvious that the clown is only going to do harm with the captain's ID and nuke disk. Hell, I'd probably be more likely to bwoink an AI that randomly did something like this. 

More often than not, the people that say these things are the same people that get annoyed/ irate when they greytide and get smacked for it by security/ whoever. Put simply, if you're going to greytide, do not expect the entire server to bend to your will. 

[Esenno]

 

I wasn't planning to talk much in this thread as I feel it's a fire waiting to happen

Oh definitely. That's why I felt obligated to post here and explain things.

[Daylight]

7 hours ago, Esenno said:

"Common sense should be used with interpretation of lawsets. The AI is assumed to be one that NT and CC want on the station."

Common sense typically would dictate that NT likely doesn't want people entering places they shouldn't with out a legitimate reason.

 

4 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:

AIs are assumed to be capable of intelligent, advanced thought. As well as with what Esenno said, it can be pretty damn obvious that the clown is only going to do harm with the captain's ID and nuke disk. Hell, I'd probably be more likely to bwoink an AI that randomly did something like this. 

Thing is, there is no common sense interpretation of laws that would justify the AI refusing to open the captain's office under crewsimov:

You're either refusing to open the door, in which case you're breaking your laws and risk getting bwoinked, as there is nothing in the captain's room that would harm the clown, and the clown having additional access and/or the NAD without the codes does not cause anyone to come to physical harm (Advanced rules: Harm is assumed to mean physical harm. Stunning and flashing is not harm.)

OR

You let the clown in, possibly stating over general comms that you are doing so (As I did when this scenario happened a few months back) and risk getting bwoinked for not using common sense to break your laws.

It's a lose lose situation, and one of the reasons crewsimov is my least liked lawset to play.

 

[Spacemanspark]

16 minutes ago, Daylight said:

You're either refusing to open the door, in which case you're breaking your laws and risk getting bwoinked, as there is nothing in the captain's room that would harm the clown, and the clown having additional access and/or the NAD without the codes does not cause anyone to come to physical harm (Advanced rules: Harm is assumed to mean physical harm. Stunning and flashing is not harm.)

Codes or not, you can apply enough common sense not to let the clown in to take the NAD--which is also a crime that, once committed, may easily escalate into harm depending on how both parties react. 

18 minutes ago, Daylight said:

You let the clown in, possibly stating over general comms that you are doing so (As I did when this scenario happened a few months back) and risk getting bwoinked for not using common sense to break your laws.

Again, it's not breaking the laws. 

AIs are not tools with which to grief/ greytide by proxy. I agree that crewsimov belongs in a trash can, but let's not misconstrue facts. 

[Esenno]

11 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

let the clown in to take the NAD--which is also a crime that, once committed, may easily escalate into harm depending on how both parties react. 

Code 407- Grand theft. Thus them letting the clown in to steal that stuff can lead to the clown being executed. Which means you just performed an action that leads to crew harm.

31 minutes ago, Daylight said:

You're either refusing to open the door, in which case you're breaking your laws and risk getting bwoinked

Yeah cuz what would Spark and I know about what an admin would bwoink some one about, am I right?

31 minutes ago, Daylight said:

It's a lose lose situation, and one of the reasons crewsimov is my least liked lawset to play.

Look. I hate crewsimov. But you are grossly overthinking the consequences of telling people "No" on it. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Esenno

[Daylight]

5 hours ago, Esenno said:

Code 407- Grand theft. Thus them letting the clown in to steal that stuff can lead to the clown being executed. Which means you just performed an action that leads to crew harm.

That's a good point, actually - it's unlikely that sec will escalate that far, and prisoners must be removed from the manifest before getting executed, but as a crewsimov AI it would be a reasonable fear. I'll incorporate this into my crewsimov games from now on. 

 

5 hours ago, Esenno said:

Yeah cuz what would Spark and I know about what an admin would bwoink some one about, am I right?

You're right - I don't know what admins bwoink people on, and what they choose to let slide. I'd just assumed that when the wiki page (and consequently, rule 5) said "The AI has to obey its laws.", it meant that the AI has to obey its laws. 

[Esenno]

1 hour ago, Daylight said:

5) said "The AI has to obey its laws.", it meant that the AI has to obey its laws. 

So I've quoted this from the advanced rules before but I feel I may not have explained this well enough. 

Quote

Common sense should be used with interpretation of lawsets. The AI is assumed to be one that NT and CC want on the station.

Yes. You are required to follow your laws. But you're required to do so in a way that shows you have common sense. I.E. why would CentComm send a borg to the station to open every door every one asks them to and not just issue out universal door remotes if that was they wanted? I feel that'd be substantially cheaper than an AI.