Admin Complaint - Ionward

[dip]

Admin(s) Key: Ionward
My ckey (Byond username): Tooflesscrackhoe
 

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 2021-10-14 23:51:55

Nature of complaint: Misapplication of rules, abuse of powers

Brief Description: Banned from the server for swiping an unloaded nonlethal weapon from the bartender - something that 100% could have and should have been handled in-game by SEC. Falsely accused of self-antagging and was told that civvie assault against me was permissible by Paradise Station rules.

 

Full description of events:

I would first like to mention that I have the whole chatlog from this round saved, just in case receipts are needed. Secondly, I would like to start by mentioning that I use the Paradise Station rules listed here as a reference for what is and is not okay. If these rules are incorrect or out-dated then please let me know. Also, I am not filing a ban-appeal at the moment because 1. The recommended amount of time since the ban has not yet passed, and 2. I've been playing on different servers lately and am not immediately interested in appealing my ban. I do however think this situation warrants a complaint against Ionward.

During this round I got into a rivalry with the barkeep (a player named Veroandi Maeverick) and I swiped his unloaded slug-shotgun, a competitor bar had been built in the gateway and I think me taking his gun was the last straw for him. Once Veroandi saw my character again he slashed me over the head with a glass bottle and slashed me until I bled out, this caught the attention of SEC and they arrested him. I was not arrested because SEC didn't know that I had previously swiped the gun and I did not assault my assailant with harm intent turned on, any move I made against him was a 'disarm'.

Shortly after his arrest I was pinged by Ionward, who accused me of "self-antagging and ruining his round through harassment". My explanation was that Veroandi was in the brig because he assaulted me with a glass bottle right in front of SEC, he could have easily told SEC what happened and had me arrested but he ruined his own round by harming me in front of an officer and getting himself brigged. Ionward then accused me of playing the victim, so let me make this clear: I am not attempting to play the victim card. I am just clearly stating what happened. I do not care that Veroandi assaulted me and I don't care whether or not he gets reprimanded for it, but what happened happened. He slashed me when it was against the rules and got arrested. The exact dialog between Ionward and I went like this:

PM to-Ionward: It's against the rules of the server to attack people with harm intent, the standard protocol is to call SEC and explain the issue to them, not harm other players.

PM from-Game AdminIonward: No, its not

PM from-Game AdminIonward: Its against the rules to attack people lethally, randomly

PM to-Ionward: Yeah, he attacked me with a broken glass bottle (WINDOW)

PM from-Game AdminIonward: You broke the rules AND the law, and got what was coming to you. I don't buy this victim shit at all.

PM from-Game AdminIonward: Perfectly justified after you STOLE HIS GUN

 

Rule 7's section on assault clearly states "Violence capable of inflicting serious damage to someone, especially anything that places them into a critical state, is reserved for Antagonists. Outside Self-Defense, this kind of violence is not permitted."

I was not attacked in self-defense, I never harmed my assailant. Attacking someone with a broken glass bottle is lethal, and my character would have died from bloodloss if I wasn't dragged to medbay and stopped from bleeding out.

 

Rule 7's section on self-antagging clearly states "Minor criminal activity is allowed as a Non-Antagonist. However, it will be considered Self-Antagging if it negatively affects a significant portion of the crew, or is done without any reasonable IC justification and/or provocation"

I didn't steal the Captain's antique laser gun, I didn't steal lethal weapons from the armory, I didn't put the crew in danger. I swiped an unloaded slug-shotgun from the bartender. I understand that this is against Space Law and could have gotten me brigged, but by definition of the server rules this is not self-antagging. I've never been assigned an antagonist role before and tasked with stealing the bartender's shotgun.

I've played on this server for over 600 hours over the past 4 years, I've been on the receiving end of plenty of antics like this and I've never complained to the admins about it, nor have I expected admins to come to my defense over it. If this player felt that I had gone too far then I would have been very willing to back off if he had asked me to LOOC or if an admin had just asked me to cool it.

 

My official ban states this; "Explain how you were not trying to ruin a round by stealing from and harassing a bartender all shift on the forums. Also explain how you're not trying to play the victim card by saying he broke the rules by "using harm intent." After 600+ hours you clearly do not understand the rules nor spirit of the server.."

The part about "harassing a bartender all shift on the forums" really confuses me. I don't communicate with other players on the forums, I don't participate in discord discussions, and I almost never even chat in the post-round OOC. If the person playing Veroandi was being harassed on forums during the round all I can say is that I promise it wasn't me who was doing it. I don't even know Veroandi's ckey. This seems to be either entirely made-up or a false accusation.

Also, let me clarify once more: I DO NOT CARE THAT VEROANDI ATTACKED ME. This is not an attempt to play the victim card. I've played on the server for over 600 hours over 4 years, sometimes people lose their temper and I'm not salty about it nor do I take it personally. I'm just stating what happened. He attacked me and got brigged. If he'd called SEC on me then I would have gotten brigged. It's as easy as that. But it's worth mentioning that the only person here who broke a server rule is Veroandi when he made the decision to nearly murder me over what would have been a 107/307 charge.

 

The thing that confuses me the most here is that I have a server admin telling me information about server rules that's contrary to what is officially stated here. If the rules in that link are outdated or inaccurate then I sincerely ask that you please change them to reflect what the rules actually are. Especially fundamental rules like #7 that involve assault. I was under the impression that assault against other players as a civvie is never justified unless maybe by self-defense. Now I have an admin telling me to my face that isn't true, and that assault is justified under vague circumstances if someone has annoyed you enough. So either Ionward is an admin who isn't caught up on server rules or the rules list isn't up to date.

 

[necaladun]

Hi there,

First of all, I very much need to address this:

On 10/16/2021 at 10:06 AM, dip said:

Brief Description: Banned from the server for swiping an unloaded nonlethal weapon from the bartender - something that 100% could have and should have been handled in-game by SEC. Falsely accused of self-antagging and was told that civvie assault against me was permissible by Paradise Station rules.

This is not what you were banned for. This shows you've either completely missed the point, or are intentionally lying here. Here's the actual ban reason:

Quote

Explain how you were not trying to ruin a round by stealing from and harassing a bartender all shift on the forums. Also explain how you're not trying to play the victim card by saying he broke the rules by "using harm intent." After 600+ hours you clearly do not understand the rules nor spirit of the server.

You weren't banned for swiping the shotgun. You were banned for stealing it as a non antag, and shooting the bartender with it. You cannot claim self defence when you're being disarmed of a weapon you just stole off someone. You stole from him, then attacked him with the shotgun, toolbox, and your fists.

As a non antag, you should not be stealing from and assaulting other crew members. Again I remind you - it is not self defence if YOU provoke someone, steal from them, then shoot them when they try to disarm you of what you just stole.

Additionally, it appears you have misread the ban message. It means that you should explain on the forums, not that you harassed him on the forums.

Ionward was correct here, your actions are not in line with the rules. If you're not an antag, do not go around robbing and shooting fellow crew without admin permission. 

Complaint is without merit. In addition:

On 10/16/2021 at 10:06 AM, dip said:

I was not attacked in self-defense, I never harmed my assailant.

The logs show otherwise. In addition to you lying about the reason for the ban, I would like some explanation as to why you are lying to me in this admin complaint.

[dip]

Quote

This is not what you were banned for. This shows you've either completely missed the point, or are intentionally lying here. Here's the actual ban reason:

Explain how you were not trying to ruin a round by stealing from and harassing a bartender all shift on the forums. Also explain how you're not trying to play the victim card by saying he broke the rules by "using harm intent." After 600+ hours you clearly do not understand the rules nor spirit of the server.

I addressed this later on in my post. The fact that stealing is mentioned in the official ban statement and Ionward specifically stated my assault was justified after stealing the gun lead me to believe that theft had to do with the reasoning for my ban.

Quote

You cannot claim self defence when you're being disarmed of a weapon you just stole off someone. You stole from him, then attacked him with the shotgun, toolbox, and your fists.

Hey, I think you may have misread my post. I never claimed that I specifically hit anyone in self defense, my claim was that the person who attacked me can't claim self defense because they beat me until I was in critical condition and no longer a threat to them. I read a previous admin complaint here in which someone was reprimanded for doing exactly what Veroandi did to me.
Now let me address your mention of me assaulting someone with the shotgun, toolbox, and fists. This instance was earlier in the round and entirely separate from the situation in which I was slashed with a glass bottle. The scuffle was broken apart by SEC and we were let off. To be honest, I had completely forgotten whether or not I used harm intent here so I took a look through the logs myself and I did see that I attacked with harm intent, but this is what the logs read for each one -

You fire the double-barreled shotgun!

Veroandi Maeverick is hit by a beanbag slug in the chest!

So this shows that the shotgun attacks were nonlethal with beanbag slugs - no more lethal than boxing gloves. Later on in the round, the gun wasn't even loaded.

-----

Veroandi Maeverick has thrown the chair.

You're hit by the chair!

Alan Endsley has pushed Veroandi Maeverick!

Alan Endsley has robusted Veroandi Maeverick in the chest with the mechanical toolbox!

So in my initial post I never claimed to hit anyone in self defense, but now that you bring this up I actually think this may fall appropriately under the self-defense exception on rule 7. He hit me with a chair until I went into crit, I toolboxed him and then headed towards medbay without continuing to attack him (I even clearly stated in the chat afterwards "Fuck that, I'm going to medbay to get treated before i die" and "Alright fuck this i'm going to medbay"), this is what was suggested to the person who submitted the complaint that I previously linked. It is also worth mentioning that both of these instances of me hitting my attacker took place wayyyy before he slashed me. I was beaten to a bloody pulp with the chair and had to go to medbay, then later on in the round I was beaten into critical with the broken bottle and had to be dragged to medbay by someone else. So that's twice that he attacked me into near-death, neither of which were in self-defense. 

 

I searched through the logs twice to try and find an instance in which I hit Veroandi with my fists, but I couldn't find it and I don't remember ever doing it so I can't really speak on it. But I will apologize for it anyway.

Quote

As a non antag, you should not be stealing from and assaulting other crew members.

I understand and I will include this whenever I decide to appeal my ban, but rule 7 states "Minor criminal activity is allowed as a Non-Antagonist"? It's clear to me now that it is not allowed but this part of the rule initially mislead me into believing that stealing from the bartender would only be a potential 107/307 charge from SEC and not a violation of server rules. If this is the case then I think it would be good for the rules to reflect that theft is not considered "minor criminal activity".  I'm suggesting this in good faith.

 

Quote

Additionally, it appears you have misread the ban message. It means that you should explain on the forums, not that you harassed him on the forums.

Thank you for clearing that up, the wording had me confused that I was being accused of taking things OOC.

 

Again, I feel like this entire situation is something that could have and should have been handled in-game. You didn't address these concerns in your response, but I don't appreciate being falsely accused of self-antagging in my chat with Ionward and being told by an admin that assault is justified if it feels provoked. If this is the case then I also sincerely request you edit the section of rule 7 which states "Violence capable of inflicting serious damage to someone, especially anything that places them into a critical state, is reserved for Antagonists. Outside Self-Defense, this kind of violence is not permitted" because that lead me to wrongfully believe that assault against crew members (especially to a critical degree) is never allowed unless by self defense - in which it should not even be to a lethal degree.

 

The wording of your response makes it seem like I've given you the impression that I'm trying to be hostile with "gotcha" moments or something and I want to clear the air there. Truthfully I want to make sure I have a full understanding of the rules because what I've been told by Ionward is not consistent with the rules I've been going off of listed here. This is the ruleset I've been following for the past 4 years and it's clear to me now that the actual rules are more nuanced than the ones I've been using as a reference.

[Landerlow]

I will be replying to this, with authorisation from Necaladun. I will keep it brief.

First of all: my apologies for the way too late reply. This complaint simply slipped our minds.

Secondly, both parties have spoken. Continuation/further discussion about this situation is best done in a ban appeal, as this is now more about your ban than Ionward's actions. They were correct, as stated earlier. 

I will file this complaint.