Which of these is Breaking the rules

[Renaultclio]

This is basically a list of scenarios and discussing whether or not they are breaking rules and other certain times when this rule should apply

1.  Amassing guns and armor because of cult halos/Wizard/Nukeops/Traitor murderboning because hijack.

2. A security officer tries to tase you, but you dodge the shots, and disarm him  of his gun, and run away.

3.  Taking a bribe as an engineer to turn a blind eye  to let a traitor steal a supermatter silver

4. See your objectives go "Nah fuck that shit" and build a saw deathtrap and kidnap random people to force them to compete for their lives

5.  Assisting a traitor in hijacking the shuttle as an antag

6.  Giving up high risk items to  a traitor because you are being held at gunpoint.

7. Making a death trap at the centcom arrival area so when ert arrive they get killed when you are  an antag

[Pckables]

Obviously i'm not an admin so i'm not going to be the spokesperson on whether something is good or bad, but for the sake of a quick response I can post what i've seen general attitudes to these are:

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

1.  Amassing guns and armor because of cult halos/Wizard/Nukeops/Traitor murderboning because hijack.

I assume you mean gun crates as Cargo. Amassing during Nukeops/Blob is specifically allowed in SOP. Wizard might be a grey area but is probably fine. Cult Halos probably only if command is non-functional/dead. Traitor Murderboning still only if allowed by HoS.
If you just mean arming as crew: Generally only Nukeops/Blob. If station is noticably in absolute chaos, nothing wrong with grabbing what you find for self-defense, but don't go raiding the armory.

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

2. A security officer tries to tase you, but you dodge the shots, and disarm him  of his gun, and run away.

As a non-antag, depends on Alert Level / Active Threat and what crime you did that the officer is trying to tase you for. If it's green alert / no threat, and you're being chased for something minor like graffiti or denying a search, just don't steal the taser and it's generally fine.
During Red Alerts / Active Threats, you shouldn't be distracting / messing with security as a non-antag.
On the other hand, if you're seen constantly annoying security every single round, you start to trend towards breaking rule 2 and/or 0.

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

3.  Taking a bribe as an engineer to turn a blind eye to let a traitor steal a supermatter silver

Bribes are 100% OK, especially for theft objectives. Multiple people, myself included, have bribed the warden to sell his Krav Maga gloves.
Though the engineer taking the bribe should probably also know how to re-stabilize the SM afterwards and make sure to do so.

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

4. See your objectives go "Nah fuck that shit" and build a saw deathtrap and kidnap random people to force them to compete for their lives

Adminhelp for permission. Some rounds you may be allowed, some rounds maybe not.
Though to be blunt, you'd probably need to describe a pretty unique, fun, and complex deathtrap to convince an admin to allow you start kidnapping random people to put into it.

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

5.  Assisting a traitor in hijacking the shuttle as an antag

From Rule 6:

Quote

They must tell you what their objectives are, before you can help them. They cannot simply request 'help'. They have to be specific about what the objective is, e.g: "The Syndicate asked me to kill X. Will you help?". This does not entitle you to mass-murder, or take other hijack-only actions, unless the person you are helping clearly tells you that they have hijack. If they do tell you that they have hijack, and you plan to help them by doing hijack-only actions, please ahelp this to let us know;

in short: They have to tell you they have Hijack, ask for your help, and then preferably you adminhelp that information so the admins don't get confused when they see a random antag with objectives "Kill a civvie and steal the clown's crayon" using maxcaps in escape.

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

6.  Giving up high risk items to  a traitor because you are being held at gunpoint.

This is called Roleplay. As long as you roleplay it in a reasonable way, and not "He has a taser, better give him the NAD", admins generally like this kind of stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Renaultclio said:

7. Making a death trap at the centcom arrival area so when ert arrive they get killed when you are  an antag

This would be a rule-break. Don't make death traps in arrivals, even for ERT.

From Rule 6:

Quote

Antagonists may not spawn camp the Arrivals Shuttle, or the immediate area, for late arrival victims

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Pckables

[Renaultclio]

Wait, sm shard objective causes sm to delaminate?

[Pckables]

10 minutes ago, Renaultclio said:

Wait, sm shard objective causes sm to delaminate?

It causes a big power spike to the SM when collected, which has the possibility to destabilize containment in some situations.
A standard SM set-up is probably stable enough to prevent any issues, though.

[Rythen]

I can't speak for the whole admin team but here's my opinions on the situations.  They pretty much align with what @Pckables already said as well.

 

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

1.  Amassing guns and armor because of cult halos/Wizard/Nukeops/Traitor murderboning because hijack.

Depends on situation and context to determine if the station should amass guns and it's always the HoS's / Captain's call on whether or not to arm crew.  If there's a threat then you should respond to the threat at a similar level to what the threat is.  Amassing mechs or printing an armoury of weapons to "prepare" for some threat that "might" happen when station is on green is a problem and is seen as powergaming.  Printing out guns for a situation that warrants them after being ordered to do so by the HoS is likely to be fine.  Situations like nukies and a blob that is spreading are obvious situations where arming up is expected.

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

2. A security officer tries to tase you, but you dodge the shots, and disarm him  of his gun, and run away.

Assuming you aren't an antag, it depends on station alert level and what else is going on.  If it's green and you aren't diverting security away from other things it might be fine.  If you are doing this on code red and diverting security resources away from another threat to chase after you because you stole their equipment then it starts to become self antagging.

It also depends if you have an actual reason for doing it.  Someone who is just constantly messing with security and trying to make their lives difficult for no reason might end up getting talked to.

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

3.  Taking a bribe as an engineer to turn a blind eye  to let a traitor steal a supermatter silver

This seems fine to me.  I would say that they shouldn't take a bribe and help you do it but taking a bribe to look the other way seems like reasonable roleplay to me.  Really depends on the context though, what's being used to bribe, what's being asked. 

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

4. See your objectives go "Nah fuck that shit" and build a saw deathtrap and kidnap random people to force them to compete for their lives

Violates the rule around playing antagonists responsibly.  You can kill people as an antag but it should either be to support your objective or if you need to defend yourself you can kill people who are attacking you.

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

5.  Assisting a traitor in hijacking the shuttle as an antag

This is allowed but it should be ahelped first so that admins know you are helping.  The person with hijack also needs to directly ask you for help, you can't just help them just because you know they have hijack.  They have to want your help.

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

6.  Giving up high risk items to  a traitor because you are being held at gunpoint.

This seems fine to me and seems like reasonable RP.

14 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

7. Making a death trap at the centcom arrival area so when ert arrive they get killed when you are  an antag

This sort of falls under the rule of not camping arrivals area for new arrivals.  "Do not camp the arrival shuttle. This includes the area immediately around it, up to the security checkpoint."

Edited November 10, 2021 by Rythen

[S34N]

7 hours ago, Renaultclio said:

This is basically a list of scenarios and discussing whether or not they are breaking rules and other certain times when this rule should apply

1.  Amassing guns and armor because of cult halos/Wizard/Nukeops/Traitor murderboning because hijack.

2. A security officer tries to tase you, but you dodge the shots, and disarm him  of his gun, and run away.

3.  Taking a bribe as an engineer to turn a blind eye  to let a traitor steal a supermatter silver

4. See your objectives go "Nah fuck that shit" and build a saw deathtrap and kidnap random people to force them to compete for their lives

5.  Assisting a traitor in hijacking the shuttle as an antag

6.  Giving up high risk items to  a traitor because you are being held at gunpoint.

7. Making a death trap at the centcom arrival area so when ert arrive they get killed when you are  an antag

So, as mentioned by rythen, personal opinion here and not an official stance.

 

I can tell you right away that 3 and 6 are fine IMO, 5 is okay if you get permission in ahelps.

2 is very context dependent, if its green alert and not much is going on, sure. If its red and most of sec are dead due to a vampire rampage then no.

4 and 7 are clearly not acceptable. If you want to do 4, ahelp for custom objectives any you might get an admin who's got the time to arrange it.

1 again is context dependent, amassing guns can easily cross into powergaming territory. For example: warops declared and you, the warden, immediately take all the guns for yourself. Thats no bueno. However if most of the crew are dead or dying and you find like 6 guns lying about, taking them is fine. It really does depend on the situation and there is no "one size fits all" answer.

 

[necaladun]

There's not enough context on any of these to really tell and this reeks of trying to rules lawyer and hit us with "gotcha" bullshit.

[ID404NotFound]

6 hours ago, necaladun said:

There's not enough context on any of these to really tell and this reeks of trying to rules lawyer and hit us with "gotcha" bullshit.

Erm, excuse me, but *heh*, I read this forum post, that ummm, says I'm right.

[Esenno]

7 hours ago, necaladun said:

There's not enough context on any of these to really tell

This. And pending more context even what other members of the admin team have said here will probably change too.

[necaladun]

Yeah, the best example I see is about the 'bribe'. Like for what? 10 credits is bullshit clearly. We're not going to give a credit value to each steal objective either. 

Use common sense please, and if in doubt ahelp. SS13 has near infinite possible situations, we can't rule on all of them.

https://paradisestation.org/wiki/index.php/Advanced_Rules - has some precedents.