Round ID 29147 Admin Complaint.

[PetalMoon]

Admin(s) Key:

@MrSynnesteris a game admin

Your ckey (Byond username):
Petal Moon
(I play as Ashlie)
Your Discord name (if applicable):
Not applicable

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 

‎(UTC+8)‎

9:20PM

Thursday, 11/11/2021

Nature of comment:

Misapplication of rules, Misconduct, abuse of powers

Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:
I plan to make an appeal when I have more time, or if possible, this serves the purpose of a ban appeal as well. While I do know this will take more time, me and my rp friends have a few other servers to pass the time before I am unbanned.

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):

I was in admin chat with MrSynnester in round ID:29147

He pushed biased and unbinding accusations of rule breaking against me, said he'll warn me. I explained I did not break any rules as he has been informed. He said he'd ban me if I continued disagreeing with him. I told him fine, yeah, alright, I'll accept your ruling since the admin's words are final, but respectfully, this is messed up admin stuff. 

He told me if I had a complaint to put it up here,

I told him I'm not the type to complain

he banned me after that message.

Full Description (I ask that you take the time to read this):

He asserted that I had validhunted "Nomen Est Omen". I gave him a general recount of what led me to that situation. I was a miner, mined a bunch, noticed a bunch of other miners, decided I had done enough and I could come up to get a job as medical as medical was very short staffed. I believe at the time there were 2 doctors, both CMO. I went to HOP, talked a bit, then talked to CMO. CMO was very unresponsive, so with only one message followed by silence and no more replies, me and HOP complained about CMO for a bit before heading off to medical to talk to find them. Walking by behind a open maintenance door I saw a sleeping person. I dragged him to the sleeper then investigated the shaft. Walked a few steps in and heard the sounds of death and mentioned it to sec. No response so I looked around for the wheezing body. It was at that point a fellow maintenance diver walked in, to which I walked away from and was wary due to notice of vampires. I questioned them and found out they were looking for drained bodies to clean up and told them I would cover them explicitly as you would find in the game's chat logs if they are recorded. I fed them some holy water, as I had already picked some up. After all, there are words of vampires on the station and I had walked passed science many times, so figured to get some for safety and self defense. (take note of this.) 

While looking for bodies we walked past a man in a plague mask, I paused, asked him who he was and he started running. Suspicious, I asked him to stop, saw him go around a corner and slowed down to notice he intended to hit me when I rounded the corner, I shot at the corner and he ran out and glared me. He was a vampire. I was later dragged away as my body cleaner friend got glarred and I ended up in a side room. To buy time to escape I told my captor I was full of holy water, so he might have to wait. I struck up a conversation to buy time to undo my restraints. I escaped but he was faster, got caught and killed. 

I gave him a brief recount, as follows

MrSynnester: So uh...question. 
MrSynnester: An admin is talking to you, please respond. 
PetalMoon: Oop sorry, lemme find the message 
PetalMoon: Yeah, whats the question 
MrSynnester: This is the message. I just wanted to know why, as a miner, you decided to chase a vampire in maintenance with holy water? 
PetalMoon: Got like 8000+ mining points, things seemed pretty solid so I came back up to get a part time job as medical 
PetalMoon: Since medical had 2 doctors 
PetalMoon: Cmo didn't reply, me and HOP complained about them for a while 
PetalMoon: Then I saw an open vent, had holy water and thought 
PetalMoon: Oh look, a body is sleeping in there 
PetalMoon: Dragged it to a sleeper 
PetalMoon: Then headed into the vent to check it out since I had holy water 
PetalMoon: And before you ask, every time theres vampires I automatically default to having holy water on me 
MrSynnester: ...right and you know you should probably not go into maintenance when there are vampires around, nor should you chase them as not security. Couple that with keeping holy water on you at all times that can be powergaming. I'm giving you a /heavy/ warning here to do none of that, okay? 
PetalMoon: Wow thats two people who just walked past my body 
PetalMoon: Whys having holy water power gaming? 
PetalMoon: Also, I met up with a friend who was cleaning bodies and decided to follow them 
MrSynnester: Because it's arming yourself up for something you don't need as a non security. 

See, this is incorrect because how he heck is that power gaming. Its clear this is a gross misaccusation, disregard of the ruleset, and possibly a sign that they do not know the rules as an admin. All of which is inexcusable and a sign of a real bad admin.

Additionally, according to server rules, this is far from something that is even a matter of contention. 

[Regarding "Powergaming"

The Server Staff retain the right to ask you to tone down what is perceived as being excessive powergaming that causes noticeable disruption to the rest of the playerbase. Powergaming is readily defined as the prioritization of amassing mechanical advantages for yourself, to the detriment of the enjoyment of others or the creation of interesting RP situations, and is to be avoided in favor of methods that both encourage and promote the fun of all parties involved in interactions where such moderation is possible.]

It was not something worth being punished over as in this case they would simply ask me to tone it down. Additionally, if I were "Excessively Powergaming" to which I was not. Carrying holy water for self defense is not amassing a massive advantage. So of course, its reasonable for me to find this as a little ridiculous. The conversation continues as follows.

etalMoon: Holy water is self defense, its nice to have if someone drinks me  
PetalMoon: And its not really a weapon since I kinda need to be drank for it 
MrSynnester: Yeah, well you shouldn't be packing "self defense" leave it to the admins, otherwise run away or fight back until you can. 
MrSynnester: Ahem, security not admins my apologies. 
PetalMoon: Eh, I saw a vampire and chased it with my corpse cleaner friend. Its not meta gaming. ANd I mean, its dumb, but theres no straight up rules against it. Additionally, if we're looking at security, they didn't really do much. 
MrSynnester: It's validhunting. Not metagaming. (Petal note, this is in reference to the fact that the vampire complained I was validhunting to which Synnester did not bring up at the beginning to me, so I didn't know what to exactly refute nor include.)
PetalMoon: I was mentioning hearing death sounds in the maints 
PetalMoon: For l3 minutes and no response, no one coming (3 minutes not 13, the I is a typo)
PetalMoon: I wasn't exclusively aiming to hunt either 
PetalMoon: Its not like I decided, "Oh damn, I should hunt vampires." I was looking to be helpful around the station 
PetalMoon: Couldn't be helpful in medical since CMO was mostly ignoring 
PetalMoon: Sorry, reply sent an adminhelp message 
MrSynnester: Right, a crash for me. Overall i'm going over everything. What you did was validhunting, powergaming and your comment about joining a ghost role and coming back could lead into metagaming. I'm being far, far too kind and giving you a chance to not do any of those things and that's final, got it? 
PetalMoon: I was kidding, although I guess the sarcasm doesn't really come through. I didn't go through with it either, since I had no intention to. 
PetalMoon: I understand some things shouldn't be joked about, sorry for that 
MrSynnester: Just keep in mind the rules you've broken, and realize that your next infraciton might lead to big consequences.  (Clearly incorrect)
PetalMoon: But I literally do not have intentions to abuse systems or ignore the rules. I also didn't validhunt, if thats what I think it means, and I didn't power game 
PetalMoon: If I wanted to powergame, I woulda farmed weapons, tools or genes specific to fight vampires,  
PetalMoon: And I certainly didn't meta game 
PetalMoon: What does Validhunt mean, anyways if you could enlighten me with a few Us of Mannitol 
MrSynnester: Validhunting is chasing down antagonists, like you did, as non security. 
PetalMoon: So what everyone should do is basically run from antagonists all the tie? 

 

Its here I should mention a few details, I was not chasing them down. As mentioned above, I didn't know they were a vampire at the time and wanted them to identify themselves. Although I see through adminconvo that my wording would be a tad misleading. I did however clearly mention my intents. I was not actively hunting antagonists or going out of my way to do so. I was covering a friend to make sure they could clean in peace. This was clearly stated. 

 

[Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists]

 

Additionally, in the context of chasing them down without knowing they were a vampire, it is not going out of my way to hunt antagonists. One could even put up the point that if I saw an antagonist in front of me and knew they were a vampire, it is not "Dropping my job or going out of my way to hunt antagonists." As such, this point is questionable at best, but I considered it might have some weight so he might have a point there, despite it not applying as stated in the rules. The rules can be flexible after all, and he can bend that to be considering validhunting if he had a unclear definition of the rules (which once again, he's a game admin, not a trial admin.), even if it clearly doesn't apply.

MrSynnester: This is the last i'm speaking of it, if you don't know our rules i highly suggest you read them. There's a button at the top right. (at this point I had skimmed them which was why I was mythed at his judgements, he clearly was misapplying them or bending them to push the punishment.)
PetalMoon: Even if they see them running away 
PetalMoon: I had the intention to inform sec 
PetalMoon: And did so along the way 
MrSynnester: This conversation is ending now, got it? You've got your warning. 

[I understand admins wanting to do this because they might not see this as worth their time, they have better shit to do. But you're honestly cutting out someone's ability to explain themselves and get to the bottom of a clear and fair ruling. Once again, its sub-trial admin shit.]

PetalMoon: Wait. 
PetalMoon: As far as I'm aware 
PetalMoon: Validhunting is exclusively going out of ones way with the intention to hunt antags, according to the server rules 
PetalMoon: I did not explicitly mention nor had the intention to hunt antags 
PetalMoon: In the chat, I even mentioned I was there to cover the body cleaner 
PetalMoon: As such, would charges of validhunting be... Valid? 
MrSynnester: End of the conversation. Any more and it'll lead to a ban. If you have a problem with my adminning you can make an admin complaint on the forums. 
PetalMoon: Uhhh, gimme a sec 
PetalMoon: I will accept your warning as your say is final, according to the ruleset. I do believe I have he right to respectfully mention, that you are biased and unclear in the charges you are pressing and is generally unbefitting behaviour for an admin and implore you to reconsider your judgement.

 

After all, none of his claims really stuck. I did not power game in the slightest, his first accusation. I did not validhunt. But I supposed my (possibly leading to metagaming) joke was in bad humor the first time, as he didn't pick up the sarcasm of it all. Additionally, I must mention, that mentioning being able to do it does not count as actually metagaming, especially as a joke, he acknowledges this by saying it could lead to metagaming but is not, trying to push a distant almost rulebreak. And lets be honest, who doesn't make facetious jokes without intention to follow through. But, no one likes someone who disagrees with them as thats simple binding human nature.  Additionally, the rules do state "The admin's say is final" Which while I do not always agree with, do respect. Thus I accepted their warning as their final say, respectfully said I felt his ruling was biased and hope he might consider his judgement and chose to not push it any further, drawing the conversation to an end.

I did not save the convo past this point as I had become banned before copying. As it is an admin convo, I assume you have it logged somewhere. 

After this he showed indifference and mentioned that he would warn me and if I could put up a complaint. At this point I made a joke along the lines of, "Although I find this experience souring like an unripe orange... Or that could be the unripe orange I am eating right this moment." I told him I would not lodge a complaint as a warning over something like this is not worth it to me, I'm not the kind to lodge complaints. I do after all not like putting people in trouble especially if its just over a warning. Then I opened my phone to wait out the round, looked back up and oh, I'm banned. 

A few seconds after I said I'm not the kind to lodge complaints, I got banned. I can only theorize his initial unwillingness to ban me was due to him understanding that all his claims laid shallow and even a heavy warning was pushing it. Perhaps he's friends with the vampire which was why he was pushing the punishment so hard, which would be a show of favoritism and one could say cronyism, corruption. But upon me claiming I would not in fact complaint, he decided he would be safe and just banned me.

Not only did he push unbinding accusation upon me, he deemed to warn me. He could also have acted upon cowardice and only deemed to ban when he felt it was safe, knowing it was not something that an admin should do. His punishment was unfitting and he changed it without proper warning. You could argue he said if I pursed the topic I would be banned, but I simply mentioned that I accept his ruling and brought it to a close, being especially respectful (literally saying, "I accept your final ruling, but will respectfully inform you that I feel your judgement is biased and unbefitting of admin behavior.)

This man while perhaps fit to be a bad player, does not deserve to be an admin. He clearly didn't care very much to make a fair judgement, did not want to understand the situation, and pushed unbinding arguments, repeatedly. His stance was biased and possibly influenced by a sense of cronyism. Perhaps he plays admin to fulfill a power fantasy or displace his frustrations irresponsibly. His behavior is immature and cowardly, he brings a bad name to all admins on the server. If a man who conducted himself like this worked under me, he would be given notice and fired in a month. What I'm saying is, demote this man. Although I understand if you, the reader are simply close to this man, prefer him to a nameless player, and decide you would keep him on under the reason of (Oh man, we'll let him go once but if something like this pops up again while this is in recent memory... Hoo boy,) even if he's clearly a bad admin. It would certainly lower the overall workload if you are understaffed. It clear he's not a good admin, let alone admin material.

Plus, if you're the head of staff ( @necaladun ) or something and understaffed (to which I am not implying,) just ask the most active, experience players if they are interested. They clearly love the server and won't become an admin because they crave power. It is only those who either love the server or crave power who will become admins, because admins are a position of power and responsibility. 

To close this off, I will write my ban message for the sake of fully documenting the matter, "Reason: You were warned to drop the talk of the things you had done and you continued talking anyway, appeal on the forums when you decide to listen to an admin." This ban does not expire automatically and must be appealed. Its unprofessional, unfitting considering the circumstances in which it was dolled out, excessive, and portrays the type of person who likes to punch down.

Was this complaint wordy? Yes. Writing is an enjoyable and therapeutic gift. Am I blameless? No, I'm quite a slow and ignorant player, and while I am known to be helpful and friendly, I make super dumb decisions 24/7. But if I am not blameless, then certainly neither is the admin in question whose power binds them to be responsible, fair and unbiased, traits that they are either inconsistent in showing, or clearly lack. 

Best,
Petal
https://imgur.com/a/B0DfICm

[necaladun]

1 hour ago, PetalMoon said:

Was this complaint wordy? Yes. Writing is an enjoyable and therapeutic gift

Reading this is not. Repost it, sticking to the facts. Admin complaint forums are not for you to have an enjoyable theraputic experience. By all accounts, this looks pretty accurate - you were overprepared, and failed to follow admin instructions.

I'll give you a day or so to repost a proper complaint that isn't just a waste of my time. Show some respect to me and make it easier, this isn't the place to vent or tell me how to hire admin staff. You come off here as kinda insane.

[PetalMoon]

@necaladun,

I assure you dear sir, I am completely sane. And if I am not, I have been lied to by both myself and medical professionals. Sure, the forums are not for complaints, but I also enjoy writing, its just nice to do and an explanation for why I comment and be extra detailed. And to write more is always a pleasure, especially with good company. I apologies if I have upset you by by stating how I felt was good to hire staff, overstepping my bounds. My disdain for the staff in question could possibly be said to spill over to staff recruiting practices. But, I stand true to what I said. I think the admin was garbo in layman terms. If I come off as insane, that's fine too. I write what I write with a possible illusion of mental clarity and a lot of confetti. 

I can assure you, I was in no way prepared that game  if we both have the same understanding of "Overprepared." I never prepare unless I'm playing geneticist. I request clarification on what you mean by "you were overprepared, and failed to follow admin instructions." Such that I can give a proper reply.

With a side of salt a little garnish, and while we're at it, a cup of iced cola, 
Petal

[necaladun]

You've been on the server a week. Don't tell me how to hire staff. Knock off the "dear sir" crap.

Tell me what happened, stick to the facts, and stop writing like this is a personal hobby. Be succinct and professional in your approach, this isn't here for you to have fun with - this is for complaints about admins. Go write in a journal if you want to have fun with it. Show some respect.

[PetalMoon]

Okay then, no dear sir will be added, but I'll lay off the respectful tone as clearly you don't care. I didn't expect you to be so aggressive, especially when I apologized about this whole "Don't tell me how to hire staff." But dude, all the facts are there. My point as well as a breakdown of what happened. As well as the misconduct that happened within that. I mean, I can play ball as you want, but I'm not going to if you don't tell me how to improve it. Heck, I', not attached to the server that much. I enjoyed my time there and made friends, but if this is the type of admins who run the server, I think its clear to any outsider that things may not be conducted in the most proper manner on your part. I was respectful, yet you talk down aggressively and request for more, "Show some respect."

I've asked for clarification but instead was, well I got this. I'll be frank, you're punching down and being very unprofessional yourself. Maybe you'll reassure yourself by asking the people who will be banned or feel threatened if they disagree with you if that's the case. 

The way I wrote is the way I always write and express myself and details. Can't change it, different people work through different mediums. Ban me, fuck me, who cares. If I'm showing the respect a human or higher deserves, I expect the same, to which you seem incapable or unwilling of. If I have to deal with someone like you, this server isn't really worth my time. 

I've said my piece, I hope you'll use your brain to think and process this in a professional manner, but you won't because you're oh so very high and mighty in your views. 

No one will miss me in this community (aside from maybe the fun AIs and genetics) and you'll just. I guess lord over this precious little place on the vast internet where you're head staff. 

Without love,
Me. The person who will probably make one more salty reply if the head staff continues to be in this manner. 
(insert link of funny flipping bird.)

[necaladun]

I've given you two chances now to just succinctly re-write this in a way that isn't just annoying to read. "Respect" isn't writing with flowery, wanky prose, it's respecting my time and making it easier on me to judge the situation.

All in all, you're making a huge deal over what is fairly simple - powergaming does indeed cover 'pre-emptively' preparing for antags, and 'listen to the admins' is one of the rules - if you have issues with what is going on, you take it up outside of the round. 

Please. I'll ask one final time - just write properly and succinctly and tell me what your problem is. As a fan of literature, I hope you'll recognize that brevity is the soul of wit. 

[PetalMoon]

You've really tugged my strings.

Look, Necaladun, my problem is that I feel the admin handled my matter poorly, didn't listen to my points and wanted to push a punishment that was excessive. In accordance to the rules written here https://www.paradisestation.org/rules/ . If you state that the matter is power gaming, even if I disagree, I cannot refute that as your say is final. Even so, the punishment should not amount to a ban, considering how minor the infraction was. I understand that there is a rule to listen to admins as well, "The Staff Members have final say on the server." I listened, but I also disclosed my feelings on how the matter was handled. 

"PetalMoon: I will accept your warning as your say is final, according to the ruleset. I do believe I have he right to respectfully mention, that you are biased and unclear in the charges you are pressing and is generally unbefitting behavior for an admin and implore you to reconsider your judgement."

And that was it, no more pursuing the topic. He pushed it into a ban, despite my ending off. 

If "If you pursue this conversation will result in a ban." means that writing a single message, especially if it were to end the conversation, leads to a ban, that feels incredibly unfair does it not? 

I told him I accepted his judgement, felt his ruling was unfair and was told if I had complaints to put it up as an admin complaint. Told him I would not complain, before signing off without a hint of him doling out a ban judgement, simply it ending with saying I won't complain, and then got banned. I had closed the matter off and felt the matter was settled, then got banned out of right field. 

Most concisely, the warning felt forced and mishandled, but the ban felt unfair and for the most part out of nowhere. 

Now, I understand if you feel its too much to read, but if you can find the time, I ask you properly read the full description. Its more details that will lead to a clearer judgement. Is this succinct enough?

[necaladun]

"If you pursue this conversation will result in a ban" means if you pursue it you'll get banned.

You pursued it. You got banned, instead of going to through the proper channels. We don't have time in a round to argue all day - and you trying to get the last word in is just annoying af.

We perma ban here if you break the rules. You did, and got a ban. You can appeal the ban. This isn't the place to talk about your feelings or complaints.

You come off as someone who isn't quite with it I'm sorry. Complaint is without merit, bizarre, and a waste of my time. Post an appeal if you're ready to follow the rules and for the love of God please keep it brief. We're volunteers here, we're not being paid by the hour to read your horrid prose.