Holoparasite Rework Brainstorm Thread

[Smokincheez]

A thread for posting thoughts on possible changes to holoparasites as a whole. Types, balance changes, new features, literally anything.
 

As of right now they're in a really weird spot, usually a noob pick, and only half of the types are ever really used, only a few being useful.

Let's all discuss our thoughts on what quite frankly is a great idea whose potential is much greater than it's current state of being.

[Smokincheez]

Here are many of my currently unorganized and hastily prepared thoughts.

Balance - 12 TC is a significant amount and will basically make the rest of your gameplan revolve around it's use. Maybe if they're changed to be more useful, unique, and interesting, this could be raised. However, I think under no circumstances should any changes made to them lower their value or cost. They're already a great idea with a lot of untapped potential, they just need a re-evaluation and eventually big changes; that's what this thread is for, gathering the community's various opinions and suggestions.

Types - Like previously stated, many types aren't used often or just suck without being incredibly robust. The types should have abilities that are useful for users or holoparasites of any robustness ranging from decent to Gamma level worthy. Each type should be able to play off of its strengths and abilities while also having areas it cannot account for, leading to exploitable weaknesses for security and challenges for the user and holopara to overcome. They're literally a jojo reference, so there's not much shame in taking inspiration from the hundreds of jojo stands out there for some powerful, but limited abilites. Each type should be evaluated and expanded upon, but new types should also be in careful consideration.

Artwork - I'm also of the opinion that with a rework should come a sprite overhaul. This would not be a simple task and would require a lot of collaboration, good communication, and dedication from everyone involved. If each type had it's own unique look, as well as differences between guardians, holoparas, and scarab swarms, they would be an amazing testament to this community's passion for this game

I'll definitely be posting more but these are my initial thoughts I have on the matter. Responses greatly appreciated.

[Generaldonothing]

4 hours ago, Smokincheez said:

Here are many of my currently unorganized and hastily prepared thoughts.

Balance - 12 TC is a significant amount and will basically make the rest of your gameplan revolve around it's use. Maybe if they're changed to be more useful, unique, and interesting, this could be raised. However, I think under no circumstances should any changes made to them lower their value or cost. They're already a great idea with a lot of untapped potential, they just need a re-evaluation and eventually big changes; that's what this thread is for, gathering the community's various opinions and suggestions.

Types - Like previously stated, many types aren't used often or just suck without being incredibly robust. The types should have abilities that are useful for users or holoparasites of any robustness ranging from decent to Gamma level worthy. Each type should be able to play off of its strengths and abilities while also having areas it cannot account for, leading to exploitable weaknesses for security and challenges for the user and holopara to overcome. They're literally a jojo reference, so there's not much shame in taking inspiration from the hundreds of jojo stands out there for some powerful, but limited abilites. Each type should be evaluated and expanded upon, but new types should also be in careful consideration.

Artwork - I'm also of the opinion that with a rework should come a sprite overhaul. This would not be a simple task and would require a lot of collaboration, good communication, and dedication from everyone involved. If each type had it's own unique look, as well as differences between guardians, holoparas, and scarab swarms, they would be an amazing testament to this community's passion for this game

I'll definitely be posting more but these are my initial thoughts I have on the matter. Responses greatly appreciated.

This will probably need to be expanded on a bit, but if you are reading this and didn't know, the best holoparas are 
Ranged, Explosive, Support
The other actually viable holoparas are lightning, charger, and protector, all other holoparas are just worse from an objective standpoint as they don't cover and niches that the others do, it's a somewhat similar situation with subverted borgs where only 3 are good and the others are simply downgrades, reworking the others and nerfing the best ones should be the No.1 priority

However, the problem with holoparas remain the same that they effectively are well... noob traps, because the ability to get a possibly robust person as the holopara as a not so robust tot seems like a good deal, but it's still mostly effective to just sit in a corner with a brute mender as your holopara kills your targets and generally does your job, or in the term of support a "you can't die" button, either way guardians are just simply not very interactive for either side and either get gunned down early or kill all of security

[Pckables]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:09 PM, Generaldonothing said:

However, the problem with holoparas remain the same that they effectively are well... noob traps, because the ability to get a possibly robust person as the holopara as a not so robust tot seems like a good deal, but it's still mostly effective to just sit in a corner with a brute mender as your holopara kills your targets and generally does your job, or in the term of support a "you can't die" button, either way guardians are just simply not very interactive for either side and either get gunned down early or kill all of security

Perhaps there in lies the issue that Holoparasites are only used for combat.
The current three standouts are:
Ranged - The best at combat overall
Explosive - For deadly deception, doesn't rely on robustness at all
Support - Provides free healing and teleporting

To break away from Holoparasites being "noob-traps", holoparas, with the exception of ranged, need be steered away from direct-combat focused abilities.

Standard (Renamed to Breacher):
The strength of this holoparasite is its ability to destroy any wall.
This could be boosted to be similar to a Prince of Terror's station destruction.
Pros: Instant destruction of even reinforced walls. All doors are pried open. Bolted doors can be destroyed in a couple hits.
Cons: Moves slowly, making it harder for escapes and bad at combat.

Other Options:
Instead of breaking walls, has Spatial Displacement - The ability to drag and move normally immovable objects, even walls. (I assume this would be tough to code).

Charger:
Being super fast, chargers are great for escapes and other speed-based requirements.
What if we made Chargers like vehicles? Plus with the charger sharing damage with the owner, the vehicle is ALSO your sprite essentially.
Pros: Moves faster. Can be ridden like a vehicle and charge on a cooldown.
Cons: Movement is still controlled by the holoparasite. Low Defense, Low Attack.

Other Options: Not sure if they should keep their ability to force people to drop stuff by charging at them.

Assassin:
Should probably focus on stealthing the user, not just the holoparasite itself.
When manifested, the user can latch onto the assassin, becoming nearly invisible. The assassin then controls movement for both at a snails pace, remaining cloaked until the user moves, ends the ability, or the holoparasite is recalled.
The sticky finger Assassin can also summon and unsummon a dimensional locker to store items/bodies. On holoparasite death, the locker's contents are dropped.
Pros: Can quickly turn near invisible. Personal summonable storage locker.
Cons: Weak combat capabilities. Slow while stealthed.

Other Options: Not sure if the user should be able to hop into their own dimensional locker. While it makes it more akin to STICKY FINGA, antags hiding in lockers for half the round is already boring. Would rather not encourage it to be inter-dimensional.

I was thinking of some possibilities for the Lightning holopara, such as being able to turn on/off nearby electronics while unmanifested, even if there is no power, powersink wires while manifested, and stun borgs it hits.
But felt electronic manipulation isn't strong enough to warrant 12 TC compared to a breacher that can just break walls and open doors.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Pckables

[Generaldonothing]

13 hours ago, Pckables said:

Perhaps there in lies the issue that Holoparasites are only used for combat.
The current three standouts are:
Ranged - The best at combat overall
Explosive - For deadly deception, doesn't rely on robustness at all
Support - Provides free healing and teleporting

To break away from Holoparasites being "noob-traps", holoparas, with the exception of ranged, need be steered away from direct-combat focused abilities.

Standard (Renamed to Breacher):
The strength of this holoparasite is its ability to destroy any wall.
This could be boosted to be similar to a Prince of Terror's station destruction.
Pros: Instant destruction of even reinforced walls. All doors are pried open. Bolted doors can be destroyed in a couple hits.
Cons: Moves slowly, making it harder for escapes and bad at combat.

Other Options:
Instead of breaking walls, has Spatial Displacement - The ability to drag and move normally immovable objects, even walls. (I assume this would be tough to code).

Charger:
Being super fast, chargers are great for escapes and other speed-based requirements.
What if we made Chargers like vehicles? Plus with the charger sharing damage with the owner, the vehicle is ALSO your sprite essentially.
Pros: Moves faster. Can be ridden like a vehicle and charge on a cooldown.
Cons: Movement is still controlled by the holoparasite. Low Defense, Low Attack.

Other Options: Not sure if they should keep their ability to force people to drop stuff by charging at them.

Assassin:
Should probably focus on stealthing the user, not just the holoparasite itself.
When manifested, the user can latch onto the assassin, becoming nearly invisible. The assassin then controls movement for both at a snails pace, remaining cloaked until the user moves, ends the ability, or the holoparasite is recalled.
The sticky finger Assassin can also summon and unsummon a dimensional locker to store items/bodies. On holoparasite death, the locker's contents are dropped.
Pros: Can quickly turn near invisible. Personal summonable storage locker.
Cons: Weak combat capabilities. Slow while stealthed.

Other Options: Not sure if the user should be able to hop into their own dimensional locker. While it makes it more akin to STICKY FINGA, antags hiding in lockers for half the round is already boring. Would rather not encourage it to be inter-dimensional.

I was thinking of some possibilities for the Lightning holopara, such as being able to turn on/off nearby electronics while unmanifested, even if there is no power, powersink wires while manifested, and stun borgs it hits.
But felt electronic manipulation isn't strong enough to warrant 12 TC compared to a breacher that can just break walls and open doors.

The idea of breacher seems very... weak as it's an access tuner that costs twice the TC and is overall just less strong than an emmag as well, giving it "build mode" will make things hard from a balance standpoint as well

Charger /could/ be fun but what I see it being used as is a haha I leave now item which simply is used for escape situations and nothing else... AKA bad adrenals (which already kinda suck)

Assassin type needs to be able to do stealth well, and although this is an improvement maints camping until someone with a HUD shows up isn't great, also the sticky finger would just be... awful to deal with

Lighting holopara is fine as is IMO, main thing is that if you got gloves you win against it, which is kinda what keeps it from being broken