Lethal Shotgun Shells???

[Billy Banderson]

Shotgun slugs (the white shells) and buckshot (red) were both removed for what I've been told was "balance problems". Now, unless you go to science to ask for custom-made shells you have to craft, you're stuck with Incendiary Slugs for lethal ammunition.

I'm willing to agree that buckshot might have been overly effective against melee monsters, esp. terror spiders. Aside from a few cases, buckshot isn't much better than laser guns because of the pump/reload time and limited ammo. If it was removed for being too powerful, then NERF IT.

I can definitely agree that shotgun slugs were too powerful. There was a very high chance that when they hit an unarmored target it would cause IB and/or broken bones. The damage it dealt was manageable. I remember taking a single slug and teleporting away as a vampire only to slowly die from the IB, because no doctors or cargo techs would do surgery on me.

Currently the only easily accessible shotgun shells are incendiary slugs, which are really only great for people who enjoy themselves and everybody else in the room with them being on fire.

I've noticed a lot of stuff being removed from the game and not much being added. I think it's crazy that buckshot shells and slugs were completely removed rather then getting some sort of nerf. Leaving in incendiary slugs, which are a specialized form of regular slugs with less damage, doesn't make sense to me.

[Charliminator]

Buckshot and slugs weren't nerfed for a couple of reasons.

1) they are used by admins/nukies

2) its simply easier to remove them and then consider the balance implications. Shotgun shells were the highest dps guns available to the crew. This meant that every threat was approached with a shotgun. This means that there was no leeway for interesting weaknesses or opportunities for other ranged weapons up get used because "just use the shotgun"

Shotgun shells are gone and they aren't coming back

3 hours ago, Billy Banderson said:

I've noticed a lot of stuff being removed from the game and not much being added

This kinda sas isn't going to get you anywhere. "Improve dont remove" is such an awful standpoint, some things just need removing.

Also, we are in a feature freeze so what features do you want adding????

[S34N]

Also FYI there was an attempt to balance them, but it never really gained much leadership approval outside of one headmin.

 

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/15990

[Esenno]

When shotguns are so good that people will actively yell at cargo for getting autorifles instead there might be an issue with how good shotguns are. 

[MattTheFicus]

Pretty much what's been said above.

Shotguns were a (for all intents) free end-game weapon that out DPS'd anything you could get through RND. They were the one and only choice for high damage at all points of the round. "Reloading" and "pumping the shotgun" are all jokes of a damage bottleneck when you can just click-z-click-z-click someone to death in a few moments. There was no nuance to shotgun combat it was quite literally land one slug and fish for bone-breaks or IB.

Shotguns are gone and I honestly hope they never come back. Rifles are just a better thing for game health overall.

10 hours ago, Billy Banderson said:

I've noticed a lot of stuff being removed from the game and not much being added.

This statement alone shows that you dont have much of a grasp on WHY things are being removed and screams "I dont like my XYZ getting removed ahHHHHHHH". Game health overall is more important than making funny spaceman go horizontal via shotguns.

[Gatchapod]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:05 AM, Billy Banderson said:

I've noticed a lot of stuff being removed from the game and not much being added. I think it's crazy that buckshot shells and slugs were completely removed rather then getting some sort of nerf. Leaving in incendiary slugs, which are a specialized form of regular slugs with less damage, doesn't make sense to me.

You must have missed the bit where Charlie and Farie reworked two antags. If you go a little bit over one year, Mochi added contractors. Those are all major features.
Fox finally replacing Tesla/singulo with SM crystal happened this year, too.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure the map rotation itself was merged less than a year ago, though I can't find exact date.
And those are just major additions. Countless improvements both small and major happened this year. Looking at 2021 and saying it was a bad year is just plainly wrong.

So really, it's more of an issue of your ignorance or just plain lack of appreciation than actual lack of new features.

[Mitchs98]

Shotgun shells were removed for good reason as stated above. As someone whose goto when shit hit the fan was grab shotgun and stow taser in armor, I can safely say the game is much better without the easily accessed lethal rounds. If people want lethal shotgun rounds they can use incin rounds or take some time to make science rounds. Or simply not use lethal rounds for a shotgun and use any other lethal option.

 

And as Gatcha pointed out, there's been plenty of good additions this year. Not including minor QOL changes and fixes. Many such fixes and changes being put through in recent months since Mochi became a Maintainer.

 

If you have suggestions or ideas on what to add to the game that's beneficial, suggest it on the forums and possibly code it yourself rather than waiting around for others to code something you find particularly 'worthy' to be considered worth mentioning.