Admin Complaint - Tourte

[Photoshoot]

Admin(s) Key: Tourte
Your ckey (Byond username): Photoshoot

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 14/3/2022

ROUND ID: 30612

Nature of complaint:
Misapplication of Rules, Abuse of Power
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

Full description of events: The situation is covered completely in the ban appeal, so I will just state my complaints based on the knowledge provided. 

Abuse of Power - Tourte banned me when I asked in OOC to help me look for the things inside of Self-Antagging he cites me breaking, which he would not elaborate on beyond telling me to look for it in the rules. I feel like this is 1. not warranting a permanent ban till appeal, and 2. that the permanent ban based on 'not being able to tell what I did wrong' when I asked what I did wrong according to the rules he told me I broke for Self-Antagging, and was told to simply read the rules repeatedly.

Misapplication of Rules - I also believe that this is a misapplication of rules, given that Tourte cited a rule for my ban that I could not find. He also did not claim that it was Rule 1. Listen to the admins, instead saying that it was specifically a self-antagging issue without being able to cite where exactly this was mentioned, and despite the given information of self-antagging speaking of partaking in antag only actions, such as murder, general chaos, and causing undue trouble to security. Instead I was told that handling or distributing S-Class contraband as a non-antag was explicity self antagging.

[DoctorDrugs]

Apologies that this has taken so long to get around to being handled, myself and the other heads have been rather busy with life things and other matters. Normally people should either make an admin complaint or make an unban appeal first before the other as having both open at the same time can slow down the response of either one depending on how they're related to one another.

Moving on to the complaint itself here, The use of a syndicate PDA is considered self-antaging as non-antag. Outside of a few items that can cause no harm or would call into question of you being considered a traitor, majority of the PDA's contents would get you marked as an antag/traitor and the general idea of using the PDA would be the same action as if you were a traitor. In the past we've had people who have used syndicate PDAs to cause harm with the contents as non-antags or would end up causing enough of a scene to warrant the attention of security as non-antags, indirect violation of the rule on Self-Antaging. Tourte is correct in his application of the rules here, a non-antag handing out antag related items like S-class items would certainly fall under the rules for self antaging as causing trouble for security. Things of this nature are generally only done as an admin event as the admin who's running it can directly control what happens or in the case of things going sideways can bring them back in line. As for his ban for asking in OOC he told you to read the rules carefully and you'd find it, there's nothing wrong with his action there as that can easily devolve into "admin man bad" and attempts to paint certain admins in poor light even if their actions were justified and allowed.

Complaint is without merit.

[Photoshoot]

I understand the justification of the ban itself (now that what I did wrong was explained to me by another admin), I'm more upset with the handling of my questions, where I was repeatedly told to look carefully in the rules to find it, and when I read them over and missed it, and said as such to Tourte, I was simply told to go back and look for it, even to the point where I was searching the advanced rules with no guidance towards where I should even be looking.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Photoshoot
rewriting for clarity

[Photoshoot]

I think it would put my complaint more in context to read over the discussions with Tourte asking him to help me find the rule, as even if I feel I was overly hostile looking back, there was about 15-20 minutes of me asking for help/an explanation of what rule I broke and how with the response repeatedly being to just look at the rules and read them better.

[Photoshoot]

Also, I specifically did not mention that the admin who would not answer my questions was Tourte, since I didn't want it to devolve into a hate fest at all.

[DoctorDrugs]

	Line 37173: [2022-03-14T20:28:49] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">You are a non antag using s-class contraband and buying them. Read our rules about roleplaying standard and  self antagging.</font>
	Line 37198: [2022-03-14T20:28:56] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): it&#39;s for a gimmick...
	Line 37218: [2022-03-14T20:29:03] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Where is your staff approval?</font>
	Line 37229: [2022-03-14T20:29:06] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): im doing blackjack games
	Line 37293: [2022-03-14T20:29:23] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): and passing out the contraband, and i got it from a willing source who couldn&#39;t use it anymore
	Line 37316: [2022-03-14T20:29:26] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">You don&#39;t have an admin authorization for selling syndicate stuff, nor to get an uplink.</font>
	Line 37350: [2022-03-14T20:29:32] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i wasnt aware i needed admin approval
	Line 37395: [2022-03-14T20:29:41] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Read our rules. </font>
	Line 37436: [2022-03-14T20:29:49] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i know the rules, and i&#39;ve read them, but i dont have them memorized
    Line 37608: [2022-03-14T20:30:26] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">That&#39;s why you should read them again for this exact situation so it won&#39;t happen again.</font>
    Line 38518: [2022-03-14T20:33:32] ADMIN: Adminhelp: Photoshoot/(zombie): while i agree i should have asked you, i dont understand how it&#39;s self antagging, could you tell me where that is in the rules? im reading over it rn - heard by 4 non-AFK admins.

There is nothing wrong with how Tourte conducted himself in these PMs here, and directly tells you the rule you broke. The rules for self antaging refer to diverting securities attention towards you as a non-antag and shouldn't be done, giving people C and S class items from a poker game from a traitor's pda would fall under that understanding, getting admin approval to do something gets exceptions to the rule but without that what you did is self antag. Acting in a way an antagonist would by distributing or attempting to do so without admin approval is in violation of the self antag rules, the moment security would find out about your games you would certainly have diverted securities attention to deal with you.

 

14T20:34:57] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">You don&#39;t have staff approval for selling s-class contraband. Simple as that.</font>
	Line 39048: [2022-03-14T20:35:19] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): no i get that, but in the future just so i know i&#39;d like to see where that&#39;s mentioned in the self antag section
	Line 39162: [2022-03-14T20:35:39] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Read our rules and you&#39;ll see it.</font>
	Line 39186: [2022-03-14T20:35:42] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i also dont understand how its breaking the roleplaying standard
	Line 39217: [2022-03-14T20:35:49] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i AM reading the rules
	Line 39266: [2022-03-14T20:35:55] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Then you will see it.</font>
	Line 39279: [2022-03-14T20:35:58] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i am telling you i cant find where it says that, and asking you where it is
	Line 39379: [2022-03-14T20:36:18] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">And I am telling you it is in the rules, be it extended rules or in the main rules.</font>
	Line 39435: [2022-03-14T20:36:27] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): where can i find the extended rules?
	Line 39476: [2022-03-14T20:36:36] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">At the end of the main rules.</font>
	Line 39878: [2022-03-14T20:37:38] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): since it says that if you dont understand something you should ask questions, i still cant find it in the extended rules section for self antagging either
	Line 40080: [2022-03-14T20:38:13] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): what i mean is that i dont see anything about the use or distribution of antag-only equipment
	Line 40267: [2022-03-14T20:38:46] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): and everything i see about &#39;acting as an antagonist&#39; does refers to direct harm to another player&#39;s experience
	Line 40274: [2022-03-14T20:38:47] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">If you think this is fine, you should really re-think why it is wrong.</font>
	Line 40357: [2022-03-14T20:39:00] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i get that i should have asked you, all im asking is where it says this.
	Line 40759: [2022-03-14T20:40:02] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">1. An admin told you.2. The rules is exactly for this kind of situation. Though obviously the rules doesn&#39;t cover it all.</font>
	Line 40939: [2022-03-14T20:40:29] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): oh ok, i thought it was somewhere in the rules like you said so i was confused
	Line 40984: [2022-03-14T20:40:37] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">It is in the rules.</font>
	Line 41075: [2022-03-14T20:40:48] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">You want to keep your job as a non antag.</font>
	Line 41146: [2022-03-14T20:41:00] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Selling s-class contraband is not the way to go about it.</font>
	Line 41180: [2022-03-14T20:41:07] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): so rule 1?
	Line 41301: [2022-03-14T20:41:24] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">Read our rules once again.</font>
	Line 41559: [2022-03-14T20:41:47] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): i dont see anything about wanting to keep your job in the rules, im cntrl+fing for the word job and still cant find it
	Line 41583: [2022-03-14T20:41:48] ADMIN: PM: Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.)->Photoshoot/(zombie): <font face="Verdana">End of the debate, if you don&#39;t read our rules carefully, you&#39;ll never know and get banned.</font>
	Line 42102: [2022-03-14T20:42:36] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): but... it doesn&#39;t say that in the rules, all i wanted to know was where it said that and i cant find it even though im currently reading both the extended and the regular rules
	Line 42345: [2022-03-14T20:42:55] ADMIN: PM: Photoshoot/(zombie)->Tourte/(Y.A.Y.A.): if it&#39;s just rule 1. and it&#39;s not in the rules and it&#39;s just your decision b ased on it, then thats fine

I see nothing wrong directly with how he conducted himself, I personally wouldn't have gone about it the same way as Tourte had done so in this case but nothing was done to a point where I'd consider he did it anything out of spite or have committed misconduct as an admin. He told you it was in the rules more than a few times and even said the exact problem with your actions, he could've banned you for having not understood the problem with your actions with breaking the rules but instead he warned and informed you the problem and that it was against the rules. There's a small section right above Rule 0 on the main rules that directly references what Self-Antag is generally considered: 

Again this complaint is without merit, Tourte conducted himself in a manner I would call at worst within our guidelines and acceptable conduct from himself. Admins sometimes have to deal with a lot of shit during a round, people breaking the rules, ahelps, and a ton of other things that pop up throughout the course of a round and depending on how many other admins are online, how many things are happening that require attention of the available admins they simply won't have the time to deal with everything in depth but in this case he gave you a decent explanation to the issue itself