Complaint Request to dismiss warning - Abydos2

[TheGreaserGuy]

According to this said admin I was "Validhunting". I would respectfully like to request that another admin reviews this case. Abydos2 claims that I was valid hunting after I was in the vents searching for a recent kidnapping. Said admin claims that I was no longer at my post in the science wing at the time of warning, also claiming that I was abandoning my job, however geneticist is both considered medical and science.

I was however in the medical bay after getting attacked with a ritual knife and trying to stop a previous kidnapping in progress. There was in fact two kidnappings I was involved in, Abydos2 failed to verify that I was involved in both of these and continues to fail to understand why I was in the medical wing. I was stabbed, went to medical, and then witnessed a second kidnapping in the medical bay. All this can be verified from damage logs.

The part that is most frustrating about this in which case Abydos2 is lying about this whole scenario in an abuse of power is when he says that "You didn't see the kidnapping, you heard it." however that doesn't explain why I saw the player I believe "Paul Corin" abducting someone in the medical bay and then dragging them into the maintenance tunnels as well as why I and other players followed them. I was not alone in my search I was present with a group. Abydos2 claims I wasn't present that I heard the kidnapping and pursued but none of that makes any sense I was present so I pursed I'm uncertain why he's allowed to consider himself playing my character and being able to see what my own living eyes see. The only mistake I might've made was that I'm a newer player and I had a bola on my legs and I couldn't quite keep up with the chase so I was trying to figure how to escape said bola.

 

Final thoughts: Abydos2 misquoted rule 8 of valid hunting. I believe he only stated:

"It is only the job of Security to stop Antagonists. If you are not a member of Security, then hunting Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists."

HOWEVER: The entirety of the rule states: "It is only the job of Security to stop Antagonists. If you are not a member of Security, then hunting Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists. You may, however, defend yourself or others from Antagonist attack if you happen to witness it;"

Whether or not I overheard a kidnapping it would be in-character to assist other crewmates if they are in distress. Rule 8 claims that we are allowed to assist others in which case I was doing as I was actively witnessing it. Abydos2 would not accept that I did witness it.

I offered Abydos2 to talk with me and try to have a discussion I can understand how we were both frustrated since it seems we couldn't see each others points of view. I asked for another admin to review the case but instead he silenced me and threatened me and kept repeating the same thing instead of trying to be helpful or maybe trying to get me to see his point in a different way. He then decided to mute me and giving me a warning on my account instead of trying to be more understanding or reviewing the logs correctly. 

 

CID - TheGreaserGuy

Round #31607

 

https://affectedarc07.github.io/ParaStats/#/round/31607

[TheGreaserGuy]

Admin(s) Key: Abydos2
Your ckey (Byond username): TheGreaserGuy
Your Discord name (if applicable): N/A

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 6/8/2022

ROUND ID: #31607

Nature of complaint: Misapplication of rules, potential abuse of power.
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Claims that I was valid hunting, misquoted rule 8. Claims that I was abandoning my job although Geneticist is considered medical and science, I was involved in two kidnappings both in which I tried to stop and I was present for. Abydos2 claims that I did not see a kidnapping and was gaslighting me then decided to warn me for valid hunting. All that I don't understand is why my own two IRL eyes saw these other guys' sprites get stun batoned and then dragged away and Abydos2 acts like I didn't see it. I want my warning removed I'm annoyed, but I'm gonna be polite about it. Thank you for your time.

[Abydos]

21 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

Said admin claims that I was no longer at my post in the science wing at the time of warning, also claiming that I was abandoning my job, however geneticist is both considered medical and science.

You were not a geneticist, you were the Chef.

 

21 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

I was however in the medical bay after getting attacked with a ritual knife and trying to stop a previous kidnapping in progress. There was in fact two kidnappings I was involved in, Abydos2 failed to verify that I was involved in both of these and continues to fail to understand why I was in the medical wing.

This is also untrue as far as I saw within the logs. You were involved in a situation with a cultist outside of Science.

That much is clear, however, you were there when the kidnapping was taking place, you only showed up until after the kidnapping.

 

You showed up at medical after the kidnapping and had followed the CMO who had just gotten to maints. When he bolted down the doors, you smashed them down.

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The part that is most frustrating about this in which case Abydos2 is lying about this whole scenario in an abuse of power is when he says that "You didn't see the kidnapping, you heard it." however that doesn't explain why I saw the player I believe "Paul Corin" abducting someone in the medical bay and then dragging them into the maintenance tunnels as well as why I and other players followed them.

Paul originally attempted to kidnap you with Nolan and failed, where you polymorphed into him. He then retreated, went to medical and grabbed a doctor instead. You were only aware of him because he originally attempted to get you.

 

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I was not alone in my search I was present with a group.

You were completely alone, the CMO bolted the doors and you smashed them down. To which he even stated;

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[2022-06-08T08:04:48] SAY: /(P.U.R.P.L.E) (152,101,2): (headset) 'Chef just fucking broke my door!'

And you were running around in maints alone.

 

Quote

"It is only the job of Security to stop Antagonists. If you are not a member of Security, then hunting Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists."

HOWEVER: The entirety of the rule states: "It is only the job of Security to stop Antagonists. If you are not a member of Security, then hunting Antagonists is not something you should be doing. You may not drop your job, or go out of your way, to hunt Antagonists. You may, however, defend yourself or others from Antagonist attack if you happen to witness it;"

You did not witness it, you only saw and heard the aftermath of the kidnapping. No one asked for your help, there was no "group", and you broke medical to get into maints.. there by leaving the WHOLE of medical wide open for any cultists to run in. You were doing more harm then good, and you were dropping your drop (Chef), to run after cultists in situations you were not a part of.

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Whether or not I overheard a kidnapping it would be in-character to assist other crewmates if they are in distress. Rule 8 claims that we are allowed to assist others in which case I was doing as I was actively witnessing it. Abydos2 would not accept that I did witness it.

 

No, where or not you heard of it, you do not get to run there and start helping. That's validhunting, and as stated in the advance rules;

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Intent: This rule was specifically added when there was a pattern of people in science arming to the teeth, then patrolling maint and looking for antags. Chaplains and shaft miners have also been a major problem here, but any role can be guilty of this.

If you want to hunt antags, then there is an entire department for that: security. We attempt to balance things around security and their rules of engagement and equipment. If everyone lynches antags as soon as discovered (especially with the tools available to science, engineering, robotics, lavaland tools, etc), then the game is incredibly difficult for antags.

Rule 8 Clarifications

This doesn't mean people shouldn’t defend against, or even not interfere with antags. The key words here are "hunting" and "valid". Non-security should not be hunting for antags. Nor should people be looking specifically for situations where it is "valid" to kill someone.

A good rule of thumb is that you can defend yourself and co-workers, but if the antag runs away, you shouldn’t be chasing them down - once they run you've succeeded in defending them. If you're not security, you should be more concerned with the victim than the antag - don't give chase to them after they've been saved. If someone is kidnapped, chasing them should be with a goal of rescue. Once you've rescued the person, security can apprehend the criminal, not a vigilante.

Again, within this case, you did not witness the kidnapping. You only saw the aftermath and attempted to use it as an excuse to hunt down antags.

 

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I offered Abydos2 to talk with me and try to have a discussion I can understand how we were both frustrated since it seems we couldn't see each others points of view. I asked for another admin to review the case but instead he silenced me and threatened me and kept repeating the same thing instead of trying to be helpful or maybe trying to get me to see his point in a different way. He then decided to mute me and giving me a warning on my account instead of trying to be more understanding or reviewing the logs correctly. 

You offered to talk over discord on Voice chat, where nothing is recorded and I said no. You then was asking another admin to look into it, which was told no as I had explained to you five times the whole situation. You kept bringing it up when I told you that any further attempts too will lead you to being muted, to which you did and was muted. I did not threaten you at all.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Abydos

[TheGreaserGuy]

I want a second admin to look into this. Not someone who is targeting me. You are absolutely wrong, get a second opinion.

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You were not a geneticist, you were the Chef.

Another failure to verify logs. I had the Chef ID which I found on the ground as I was acquiring food before the whole incident started. I was in fact a geneticist. Any other admin would verify this, Abydos2 is clearly abusing his power and spreading false information.

 

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This is also untrue as far as I saw within the logs. You were involved in a situation with a cultist outside of Science.

This is the first kidnapping incident and not what I was referencing. You are misunderstanding me, either intentionally or accidentally. This is not the medbay incident in which I pursed through the tunnels. I did not pursue cultists at this point I was injured and confused so I went to medbay.

 

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Paul originally attempted to kidnap you with Nolan and failed, where you polymorphed into him. He then retreated, went to medical and grabbed a doctor instead. You were only aware of him because he originally attempted to get you.

Nolan failed to kidnap and that was the first kidnapping. I went to medical for my own reasons, because I was injured infact I was dragged by security not even did I go alone. It is entirely a coincidence Paul and I were in the same place at the same time. I was aware of him because I saw him grab the doctor I did not randomly break down a door and chase him I'm not sure where your logic in me randomly doing that comes from. Check heal logs to verify this, I'm not sure if you can verify my exact location in logs which I think is leading to a lot of confusion. I was healed in the medbay. This is where you are failing to understand this entire issue.

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You did not witness it, you only saw and heard the aftermath of the kidnapping. No one asked for your help, there was no "group", and you broke medical to get into maints.. there by leaving the WHOLE of medical wide open for any cultists to run in. You were doing more harm then good, and you were dropping your drop (Chef), to run after cultists in situations you were not a part of.

 

Irrelevant to this situation. Security and CMO were part of said group your words already contradicted this when you claim I was with the CMO. Who are you to justify what I did and I didn't witness I've proven that I have based on heal logs and damage logs.

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You offered to talk over discord on Voice chat, where nothing is recorded and I said no. You then was asking another admin to look into it, which was told no as I had explained to you five times the whole situation. You kept bringing it up when I told you that any further attempts too will lead you to being muted, to which you did and was muted. I did not threaten you at all.

Your job is to administrate & help players not discriminate them if someone doesn't understand something take a different approach and make sure you verify everything before you go after someone. I was looking for a solution and you wanted to unfairly take control and ruin my night you have been nothing but assertive and aggressive to me repeating yourself over and over doesn't help anyone understand your concept in a different way.

 

I want a second opinion. You're free to discuss but I want an unbiased second opinion I feel that as a member of the community if we are to do things justly, that is fair. All I want is my warning removed.

[Abydos]

3 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

I want a second admin to look into this. Not someone who is targeting me. You are absolutely wrong, get a second opinion.

It absolutely is not wrong at all.

 

3 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

Another failure to verify logs. I had the Chef ID which I found on the ground as I was acquiring food before the whole incident started. I was in fact a geneticist. Any other admin would verify this, Abydos2 is clearly abusing his power and spreading false information.

I'm not abusing any power, nor spreading any information. I was using the information I had at the time, which was you wearing the Chefs ID, dressed up as the Chef, and everyone calling you the Chef. The only thing I can think of is "This is the chief", and that changes little to absolutely nothing.

 

4 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

This is the first kidnapping incident and not what I was referencing. You are misunderstanding me, either intentionally or accidentally. This is not the medbay incident in which I pursed through the tunnels. I did not pursue cultists at this point I was injured and confused so I went to medbay.

I clarified and said within my message, you were outside Science when that happened.

 

5 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

Nolan failed to kidnap and that was the first kidnapping. I went to medical for my own reasons, because I was injured infact I was dragged by security not even did I go alone. It is entirely a coincidence Paul and I were in the same place at the same time. I was aware of him because I saw him grab the doctor I did not randomly break down a door and chase him I'm not sure where your logic in me randomly doing that comes from. Check heal logs to verify this, I'm not sure if you can verify my exact location in logs which I think is leading to a lot of confusion. I was healed in the medbay. This is where you are failing to understand this entire issue.

You were aware of him as he was the second cultist at the situation in Science, trying to grab you with Nolan. As proven in the screenshot, his name came up in the same area you lot are at. Therefore he was there, and you were aware of him.

 

And verified again, you only showed up at medical until after the kidnapping. It's right there within the screenshot.

 

6 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

Irrelevant to this situation. Security and CMO were part of said group your words already contradicted this when you claim I was with the CMO. Who are you to justify what I did and I didn't witness I've proven that I have based on heal logs and damage logs.

CMO and Security was not part of any group. There was no Security Officers there, and the CMO had bolted his doors down.. you smashed them down.. there was no "group" there, Security did not ask for your help and the CMO certainly did not tell you "Smash my doors down".. why would he literally say;

 

Quote

[2022-06-08T08:04:48] SAY: /(P.U.R.P.L.E) (152,101,2): (headset) 'Chef just fucking broke my door!'

 

7 minutes ago, TheGreaserGuy said:

Your job is to administrate & help players not discriminate them if someone doesn't understand something take a different approach and make sure you verify everything before you go after someone. I was looking for a solution and you wanted to unfairly take control and ruin my night you have been nothing but assertive and aggressive to me repeating yourself over and over doesn't help anyone understand your concept in a different way.

 

That is what I was doing, I was warning you for breaking the rules.. you were hunting antags, as a job you should not be hunting them in. You had no justification for doing so, and I have linked you both the rules and explained around 7 times now regarding your situation. You are literally taking this situation, running 500 miles with it.. and trying to paint it as something that is completely untrue.. saying that I am targetting you, for doing the job of ensuring you aren't hunting antags as a chef / geneticist jumped up on Hulk merely because you could. You even saying "It's in my character to help people who are in distress".. okay, cool, against the rules, you get warned, simple as.

[Landerlow]

First, let me clarify that I am posting on behalf of @necaladun, with his permission.

 

With that out of the way, to business.

There's several things I will address, starting with Abydos' behaviour. The truth is that he did not do anything wrong, nor did he abuse his power. He's also not targeting you. All he was doing, was his job. Which is administrating the server and, if necessary, hand out warnings or take other administrative action appropriate for the situation.

As for the situation itself, it's quite simple. You broke a rule and got warned for it. The fact that Abydos thought you were the chef instead of the geneticist, has to do with the fact that Abydos was going off the information available to them at the time. Whether you were the chef (or in this case) the geneticist, is, however, ultimately irrelevant in this case. What is relevant is that you went after antagonists, with hulk powers, when it was not your job to do so. That's considered validhunting.

00:47:15 Say TheGreaserGuy/(Paul Corin)(?) (FLW) 'ME HELP' (181,129,2) (JMP) -- This was outside science.

00:48:50 Say TheGreaserGuy/(Paul Corin)(?) (FLW) 'I WILL GO' (140,113,2) (JMP) - This is where you rush to medical.

You chose to go after the antag(s), because you could, while not being a member of security. Not because you helped while witnessing something happening. Hence, that's considered validhunting.

The whole situation was ultimately a minor issue where you are blowing this way out of proportion. We're all human, and it's fine if there's confusion that has to be cleared up but saying an administrator is 'targeting you' merely because you do not agree with their assessment of the situation or the administrative action taken, is not something you should be doing. It comes off as childish and won't do you any favours.

This complaint is without merit and considered resolved.