Random Borer Idea Dump (Suggestions Encouraged!)

[Zedahktur]

Borers.

Some of us like them.
Some of us hate the ones that grief with mind-control.
Some of us hate how they play.
And some of us hate how they can offer antags (or secoffs) free meth and heals.

We all know how to treat borers. With vile unbridled hatred and hostility.
But honestly, they don't seem as warranted at all.

They are a very slow, very weak "Antagonist". You are forced to rely on hiding and snatching someone off-guard. Which is not a bad take at an antag at all, but it can be difficult to slither your way inside someone as your paralysis ability is shorter than your infest. Allowing the person to very quickly slap you with a toolbox. Let alone trying to find that one person alone that won't be spotted by someone else. Afterwards you have to pray they don't immediately go for the sugar, which will quite literally be very difficult to avoid considering the long mind-takeover time and the long time it takes to leave the host which also makes you even more vulnerable and practically a death sentence as staying still to vent will get you killed.

Alongside that, you aren't very much allowed to violently attack someone even if it's to stop them from brutally delivering a world of pain and forcing you into medbay. Which makes their antagonistic status strange in my opinion.

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How I view it aside, what can we do to improve our little parasites?
What can we do to make it not a waste of a midround role?
And what can we do to actually warrant one of the most bloodthirsty overreaction towards a defenseless grub?

This post was created for me to vomit out whatever random ideas that could potentially stick or not.
And to hopefully ensure we don't lose more antags like our beloved and heavily flawed Shadowlings.

Do note that balance is not currently thoroughly thought out.
This is just an idea dump. If by some miracle any of these come to pass, balance can be handled accordingly.

So...
What if.......
 

• Zombie Parasite:
  Actually make them a threat to warrant such a strong KoS reaction. Give a sense of urgency and maybe utilize the many missing biohazard numbers. This is a combined idea of borer mechanics and the zombie antag I've seen people want for. This version of the Borer would, of course, try to hijack the mind of their host (or perhaps corpses as well). Eventually taking them over entirely (This will kill the crew player). I guess think of Resident Evil parasites in a way. In order to bring the player back to life is to shoot the body until it is dead which will force the borer to crawl out and try to flee, restrain the body and surgically remove the borer, or blow them up and save the brain lmao. Afterwards revive them.
   
• Borer Brainwash:
  We keep the host + borer cooperation. But it'd be more like a mindslave/convert situation.
  The host player will essentially be mindslaved to their borer, following its desire to survive. This will make borers more dangerous than their current cruddy default state, as they will essentially have their host attack anyone who tries to kill the borer. And potentially providing extra biological defense mechanisms similar to that of a Cling's bladearm or tentacle. The key issue here is mistaking said host with a cling and having a wrongful perma-death.
   
• Borer Xenos??:
  This random idea is for the borer to infest the host like usual. But they feast on flesh and/or blood of their victim little by little. Reproducing inside and utilizing chemicals to create countermeasures. Eventually, the host victim ruptures with a small number of new borers crawling out to continue the process.
   
• Cordyceps Borer:
  Fuck bland beta worms.
  Fungal nightmares are where it's at.
  That fungus on the walls we keep ignoring? Have a random midround turn one of those patches into a severe biohazard. A moldy little wriggly bastard would grow out of the patches, hunting for a host. Once a host is obtained, they have a limited time to find a suitable location. Afterwards, the host will die and their body will rapidly grow patches of fungus. Very similar to a blob node. And from this patch of gross fuzzy badness comes fungal abominations for players to control. With more little moldy borers to create more nodes from more victims.
  
  
  And that's about it, for now.
  These are my random borer ideas that I just threw at the wall.
  Why?
  I wouldn't want to see them remove than improved. And I figured why not say my thoughts instead of just sitting on them?
  
  I highly encourage others to pitch in. My hopes is to turn these bland worms into something worthy of being called midround antag. It would be a shame to reduce antag roles further by removing them.

[WingedYordle]

I like these ideas, also like the idea of completely removing them.

[Generaldonothing]

Eh fuck it, might as well throw my idea down because I like the idea of brain control evil sluggy guy

 

Borers are extremely flawed at the moment, it's an antag that can't really do antagonistic things due to its frankly low power. Beyond this, the strategy is to either find the dumbest fucking crew member on station to infect... or something like a monkey, because borers are removed from existence by anything with even a little sugar in it. I don't need to explain why that's problematic, when your main way of succeeding as an antag is akin to spawn camping the newest players around, it sucks for everyone involved. Aside from this, what borers can do for you is extremely great, lots of healing chemicals and some antistun goodies. The antag that's better as a buddy isn't a great place to be. Borers also suffer from swarmer syndrome of just never fucking dying. 

 

Aside from this, borers do have a lot going for them! The ability to join in as a midround and function as a somewhat friendly role and just either watch, have a nice chat, or actively play as like a monkey or something can be great fun! It's just not that fun for everyone else (and most certainly not if you took someone over and now, they get the fancam of you doing things THEY could be doing) 

 

There are two ways to tackle this task, either making borers into a real kind of antag, or not doing that

A good example of borers being made into a truly not-so antagonist role would be /VG/station borers, which also kind of suck in their own way
They can be found here: https://ss13.moe/wiki/index.php/Borer
TLDR on why they're really only ok: VG has a much lower pop then para, and VG is very much a different place than para. Borers still kind of aren't fun to play with or as. 
This would need major alterations to make it a proper role on para, and I truly doubt people would want to play it (the two pAI players left can vouch people don't love these kinds of roles). 

 

The second way is to make them a fully antagonistic role, with the intent of either taking over the station, or fully taking control of their host. Two main ways I could see this happen would be an overhaul or a total redesign, and I figure I might as well throw mine down here.

Borers but more antagonistic: Borers are now given a set of objectives to replace a department (yes, a whole department), and are moved to be a major midround.
Borers now are given extremely dangerous chemicals as well (idc about making defining stuff rn, you can guess it wouldn't be pleasant). They can now use chemicals while in control of the host body as well
Borers now start taking control of a host body upon infecting them, this takes multiple minutes to do (unless the creature lacks sentience, such as a monkey). Upon taking control, they keep it! The borer needs to be removed through surgery, and the host is effectively dead during this time. 
Making a new borer also costs a fuckload more chemicals and takes 15 seconds of standing still. 

Pros: Gives more rhyme and reason to borers, lets them do antag stuff. Doesn't rip out everything they currently have
Cons: bro this is lame ngl. Having at most, 2 departments interact with you as a major is possibly the most disappointing thing that can happen to a bored assistant. 

 

yeah bro this isn't even borers anymore cut me some slack these things suck: 

Yeah I like mind control brain slug, BUT WHAT IF IT WAS JUST A DIFFERENT ANTAGONIST ENTIRELY?

meet borers #2, something I'll do tomorrow because I can't be asked to do it today

[AffectedArc07]

May as well throw my idea down https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/18161

[Zedahktur]

10 hours ago, AffectedArc07 said:

May as well throw my idea down https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/18161

Big oofs but expected nonetheless.

Still hoping we come back to Borers someday, hopefully revise them as either a complete revamp or something entirely new but still matching the parasite theme.
From the ground up, of course, as the code for them is... Mmmm.... Yeah.....

Considering how probably time consuming that is, I don't really see this happening anytime soon should it be on the table for consideration.

 

What I would give to learn how to code funni spess gem

Edited June 30, 2022 by Zedahktur

[Bestmannnnn]

just steal their mechanics fr Vg