Change the config option "non_repeating_maps" from false to true

[Bmon]

Changing the config option "non_repeating_maps" from false to true will prevent players from voting on the currently played map during the map vote.

Paradise has an unhealthy attachment to Box which stems it being the only playable map for the vast majority of this communities life. Our other maps will never updated, made better, or otherwise fixed if no one ever plays them. And when someone does try to fix one of our maps that isn't Box it can be highly demoralizing when those countless hours spent mapping are essentially wasted as it goes completely unused.

For me at least I think the most frustrating part is that our other maps Delta and Meta aren't even bad or broken, it's just everyone is stuck in their ways with Box and refuse to vote for anything else. To be honest, this is going to force peoples hands a bit, and there will probably be people complain about having to play other maps, but we've been playing Box for the past nine years, so I think it's about time we give other maps a shot.

This monotonous cycle of Box Box Box Box Box needs to be broken and this is one very easy way to do it, it's as simple as changing a config option from false to true.

[AffectedArc07]

This has as much approval as I can fucking throw at it.

 

It needs to end.

[Generaldonothing]

If I get to play more meta I'm happy

[Miraviel]

I would like to see it enabled so it will force people to learn other maps. The main reason I hear about meta and delta not being voted is that people don't want to play them because they don't know those maps - so they just vote Box over and over again because they already took the time to learn it. Due to these low effort people, other players like me who are incredibly bored of Box, are stuck with the Cyberiad.

Meta and Delta are not perfect, but Box wasn't like this before either. It needed thousands of playhours to evolve to this point. Other maps deserve this chance too, I think.

Box will be voted every second time anyhow, so it wouldn't "kill it" or other hyperboles I keep hearing on OOC whenever this is brought up. They can still spam it, but we get to enjoy other maps as well.

[S34N]

I would like to see this enabled. Paradise players are well known to be conservative with change, but once they are used to it there are no problems.

Force them to get used to this system, break up the map meta.

[ArcZelf]

I'm all for this, I like box but delta and meta are two great stations and some people just need to move out their comfort zone and try new things if they don't know the other maps.

[Landerlow]

I fully support this

[GamblerZ]

god yes please, release me from the never ending purgatory of cyberiad.

[Samman166]

I'm so sick of box, I barely even want to play when its box station at this point. From what I see its not even a majority of the community who like box so much just a very vocal minority who constantly vote for it and complain when it's not box or we try and end box monotony. 

[Christasmurf]

i want off mr box's wild ride

[Octus]

Please do it to make box main's seethe, force them to learn a new map for once.

[WingedYordle]

What happens if they instead decide to go back and forth? Example box one round, meta the next, back to box on third, meta on fourth, etc.? Can we make it so a map is randomly picked instead?

Edited September 15, 2022 by WingedYordle

[necaladun]

The idea of changing things so that even if 99% of people want a map, it is only selected 50% of the time at most seems incredibly unfair to me.

If enough people vote for another map, then that map will be picked. 

[Bmon]

51 minutes ago, necaladun said:

The idea of changing things so that even if 99% of people want a map, it is only selected 50% of the time at most seems incredibly unfair to me.

If enough people vote for another map, then that map will be picked. 

None of our other maps are being played, and that's really due to our community being locked to only Box for the vast majority of its life.

It might seem unfair at first but it genuinely is for the best and is standard practice on the vast majority of servers with a map vote to prevent what is currently happening on Para, having the community gravitate to one map.

No one will play the other maps if they're not encouraged to and then we get stuff like this:

Doesn't help that our voter turn out is usually pretty abysmal and other maps are only picked when someone is actively begging in OOC for other players to vote said map.

[necaladun]

With low voter turnout, then it should be even easier to switch to a different map if enough people cared about it. That not happening shows it's an incredible minority of people who want a different map - it should be pretty easy to get Delta voted in with such low turnout, so this just shows that other maps aren't popular at all.

Taking away what is clearly the top choice 50% of the time seems quite wrong to me. Blaming it on people being 'conservative' discounts valid criticisms and dislikes of other maps. It's no surprise to me that people would prefer the map with 9+ years of work done on it. I can't remember the exact numbers or even where they are, but the tests we've run of other maps have generally shown a clear preference for Box.

[Miraviel]

6 hours ago, necaladun said:

The idea of changing things so that even if 99% of people want a map, it is only selected 50% of the time at most seems incredibly unfair to me.

If enough people vote for another map, then that map will be picked. 

My only gripe about this is that it is not the majority, it's just people not voting.

 

Just now a round has ended, there were 3 cyberiad votes and 1 cerebron with 69 players connected (6%). After 10-15 seconds, I asked people to vote. It ended with 7 Cyberiad, 7 Delta, 1 Meta (15 votes cast, 21% of the connected players). The vote was a tie, and it defaulted(?) to Cyberiad, something only 10% of the connected players asked for.

 

Even though people vote for other maps, we just get box over and over again, completely disregarding those who always vote for meta or delta.

People do not vote, I am not sure why. Maybe they need a sound notification to remind them that this is a thing they should be doing.

I personally rarely vote because it just goes to Box every-single-time I vote and it is incredibly disheartening.

 

I think it'd be better to call for actual statistics (if we save votes) for this case, because while I personally see only 2-5 people voting, it's my very limited personal experience, and should not be used as a staple. But - again, personal experience - I do not think the majority decides this. Barely anyone votes. It's the usual case of a "loud minority".

People are definitely at fault here for not casting their votes, but it would be beneficial to find out why they are not voting.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Miraviel
fixed grammar

[Miraviel]

2 hours ago, necaladun said:

It's no surprise to me that people would prefer the map with 9+ years of work done on it. I can't remember the exact numbers or even where they are, but the tests we've run of other maps have generally shown a clear preference for Box.

This is fairly understandable, but if the other maps are not played, they cannot be worked on for 9+ years to achieve this status. While mappers can fix some very apparent problems with maps after a few rounds (areas not powering, broken pipes, etc.) some issues, such as gameplay flow, only become apparent after a sufficient number of test runs. Hell, Box had the issue of the disposal maintenance and mining maintenance not being connected - it became connected a few weeks ago (after 9+ years?) and it was an immense upgrade.

Other maps are robbed of such decisions, because they are not even given a chance.

[Frank]

1 hour ago, Miraviel said:

My only gripe about this is that it is not the majority, it's just people not voting.

 

Just now a round has ended, there were 3 cyberiad votes and 1 cerebron with 69 players connected (6%). After 10-15 seconds, I asked people to vote. It ended with 7 Cyberiad, 7 Delta, 1 Meta (15 votes cast, 21% of the connected players). The vote was a tie, and it defaulted(?) to Cyberiad, something only 10% of the connected players asked for.

 

Even though people vote for other maps, we just get box over and over again, completely disregarding those who always vote for meta or delta.

People do not vote, I am not sure why. Maybe they need a sound notification to remind them that this is a thing they should be doing.

I personally rarely vote because it just goes to Box every-single-time I vote and it is incredibly disheartening.

 

I think it'd be better to call for actual statistics (if we save votes) for this case, because while I personally see only 2-5 people voting, it's my very limited personal experience, and should not be used as a staple. But - again, personal experience - I do not think the majority decides this. Barely anyone votes. It's the usual case of a "loud minority".

People are definitely at fault here for not casting their votes, but it would be beneficial to find out why they are not voting.

People love EORG on Paradise. I think a forced popup would help a lot because I don't wanna miss the incoming bar brawl. 

[Warriorstar]

1 hour ago, Frank said:

People love EORG on Paradise. I think a forced popup would help a lot because I don't wanna miss the incoming bar brawl. 

NO FIGHTING IN THE BAR

 

And yes please I am 100% in support of this change.

[Bmon]

7 hours ago, necaladun said:

With low voter turnout, then it should be even easier to switch to a different map if enough people cared about it. That not happening shows it's an incredible minority of people who want a different map - it should be pretty easy to get Delta voted in with such low turnout, so this just shows that other maps aren't popular at all.

Taking away what is clearly the top choice 50% of the time seems quite wrong to me. Blaming it on people being 'conservative' discounts valid criticisms and dislikes of other maps. It's no surprise to me that people would prefer the map with 9+ years of work done on it. I can't remember the exact numbers or even where they are, but the tests we've run of other maps have generally shown a clear preference for Box.

If you want the choice of the players to be respected I suggest running a community wide vote on whether to enable this config option or not.

I don't think it'd be too hard to add a forum thread with a poll in the MOTD. Or at the very get the staff team to vote on this.

A community vote would show what everyone wants, not just what 10% of a server voted for in 60 seconds.

[necaladun]

If there really is a high demand for non-box maps, then encouraging people to vote more seems to be the best option. Not removing people's ability to vote for their preferred option.

Forced pop-ups, sounds, a bigger icon, all that seem to give the players on the server the best and fairest choice. Removing the option to vote for a map entirely comes across as grossly unfair and the 'sour grapes' option.

 

[Landerlow]

While I was initially all for the idea, I find myself agreeing with Neca's point of view. I may just start reminding people to vote more often. I wonder how that'd change things up. It's worth a shot at least. 

[Bmon]

2 hours ago, necaladun said:

If there really is a high demand for non-box maps, then encouraging people to vote more seems to be the best option. Not removing people's ability to vote for their preferred option.

Forced pop-ups, sounds, a bigger icon, all that seem to give the players on the server the best and fairest choice. Removing the option to vote for a map entirely comes across as grossly unfair and the 'sour grapes' option.
 

Currently the only thing that can be done is begging in OOC for people to vote a map other than Box, something that can get you banned on other servers. We already have a sound iirc and forcing the vote menu to pop-up would only happen if there was a way to permanently disable it as an option, thus in my eyes defeating the purpose.

If we really want the most fairest thing here wouldn't a community wide vote to have this config option on or off be it? I get that community wide votes on issues that effect the whole server isn't something that's been tried on Paradise, at least to my recollection, but you really can't get much fairer than using direct democracy.

I believe enough people want this to at the very least warrant a vote.

[Shaw]

Don’t really have much to add to this conversation as Necaladun made some pretty solid points. If the issue is simply voter turn out, encourage people to vote more. Remind your friends to vote not just at the end of round, but in discord as well. Saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to vote for their preferred map because it’s not the map you want kind of defeats the point of the voting system in my eyes. 

[Aligote]

What's MOTD? You could also @ everyone on discord in announcements and force them to vote via reactions....

Edited September 16, 2022 by Aligote