Requesting community input on the removal of hard stun from the charged arm and flash/emp on borgs.

[DevanStrife]

Yo gang, Strife here asking for your input. 

I was going to remove old stun from the charged arm in both combat implant and borg form. Then it was pointed out that this would be unfair to borgs as they too get hardstunned by multiple things. Removing one would require the removal of the other to keep it fair and with that I agree. Issue I am facing here is that there are many ways we can rebalance the effects. You can see this as a brief design document with some already gathered ideas but nothing definitive of course. I just want to make sure that before I decide to PR something regarding balance that the community and staff can give some input and guidance.

 

What does this aim to do/fix?

As it is now the charged arm in both the combat implant and malf/emagged borgs still works on old stun logic. Similarly, the way flashes, EMP’s and even laser pointers work on borgs also leaves the borg player very vulnerable with no way to really fight back. This feels very out of place now as most other instances of old stun have been reworked, meaning that borg versus crew is a rapid one-click-and-you-lose situation that is not as fair or fun.

Why is this good for the game?

Paradise is moving away from the old stun system that led to very quick round enders for players. It, therefore, makes sense that we remove other instances of this mechanic as well in favour of the newer system.

Possible solutions:

My proposed idea thus far is to make the charged arm work the same way as the stun baton and to rework flashes so they instead cause confused movement or a small slowdown or to disable v-tec if the borg has it, a short blinding effect and lastly a short period of around five seconds in which the borg can not use comms. This is to prevent the borg player from instantly calling for help the moment they have been flashed. This leaves some wiggle room for a traitor to make a move with his trusty emag. Emp’s will still do internal damage along with a confusion effect and/or disabling the borg’s modules briefly. The laser pointer will simply cause a blinding effect and a very short confusion effect as it's just a laser pointer.

 

Other proposed ideas were to include a draining effect on the borg battery but with the existence of yellow slime cores this may not be an absolute fix. It was also suggested that disabling the borgs remote machine access would also hinder them plenty as they can no longer open and bolt doors from range to escape crew. They would instead have to bump into the airlock giving some time to be caught. 

 

In summary:

• Charged arm in both implant and borg form ->
  • Works similar to the security batong
• Laser pointer ->
  • Blinding effect
  • Maybe a brief confusion effect
• EMP ->
  • Internal damage just like it works now
  • Short confusion effect and/or disabling their modules briefly
• Flash ->
  • Short blinding effect
  • Confusion effect and/or a slowdown effect/disabling v-tec
  • Maybe disable their comms briefly to prevent an instant help call

 

The overall goal is to remove old stun from crew versus borg gameplay. I am interested to hear feedback on this as I am a bit at a loss on how to properly tackle the new effects that would replace the hard stun. If you have any other ideas that I did not mention I would love to hear them. ^^

[Sirryan2002]

If hard stun was to be removed from the arm, please make sure that the combat implants retain the hard stun for SOO usage.

[Charliminator]

40 minutes ago, Sirryan2002 said:

If hard stun was to be removed from the arm, please make sure that the combat implants retain the hard stun for SOO usage.

it should have a subtype that does 100 stam damage.


anywho.

 

4 hours ago, DevanStrife said:

Charged arm in both implant and borg form ->

• Works similar to the security batong

 

I would say make it work more like the contractor baton. this is supposed to be an antagonist tool. so it should be stronger than standard issue sec gear.
 

4 hours ago, DevanStrife said:

Laser pointer ->

• Blinding effect
• Maybe a brief confusion effect

 

IMO this is fine if the effect is SUPER mild. laserpointers are awful to go up against as anyone.
 

4 hours ago, DevanStrife said:

EMP ->

• Internal damage just like it works now
• Short confusion effect and/or disabling their modules briefly

 

EMPs should have a much larger effect than flashes imo. increase the damage, long confusion, and disabling modules for a short period. scaling up depending on the strength of the EMP.
 

4 hours ago, DevanStrife said:

Flash ->

• Short blinding effect
• Confusion effect and/or a slowdown effect/disabling v-tec
• Maybe disable their comms briefly to prevent an instant help call

 

So how would you fully stun a borg? you've listed the 3 main ways of stunning them and you havent given any way of non lethally disabling a borg? maybe flashing them while they are confused should stun them? flashes have a cooldown now so you cannot spam that. 

[DevanStrife]

On 10/3/2022 at 5:19 PM, Sirryan2002 said:

If hard stun was to be removed from the arm, please make sure that the combat implants retain the hard stun for SOO usage.

Sure ^^ Il make sure that it keeps the hardstun.

On 10/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, Charliminator said:

I would say make it work more like the contractor baton. this is supposed to be an antagonist tool. so it should be stronger than standard issue sec gear.

Alrighty, I can do that.

On 10/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, Charliminator said:

EMPs should have a much larger effect than flashes imo. increase the damage, long confusion, and disabling modules for a short period. scaling up depending on the strength of the EMP.

I will do some testing with this and swing back if I need more info regarding the exact damage EMP's should do.

On 10/3/2022 at 6:03 PM, Charliminator said:

So how would you fully stun a borg? you've listed the 3 main ways of stunning them and you havent given any way of non lethally disabling a borg? maybe flashing them while they are confused should stun them? flashes have a cooldown now so you cannot spam that. 

I have a few ideas for this. How about borgs still being able to be hardstunned from flashes briefly however, emagged borgs instead only become confused and slowed maybe with dissabling their modules briefly. A malf AI can also spend points to to give their borgs this partial flash shielding. The idea here is that evil borgs will need to be fully dispatched and then brought to robotics for full repair. This keeps antag borgs in the game for longer while non antag borgs are still stunnable by sec/command if they misbehave.

Alternatively, flashes could drain their power cell a fair percentage so that a borg can not sustain being flashed too much without having to recharge. If they have charged slime cores it could do something  different as otherwise the borg can just pasively charge.

The RD console is also still able to lock borgs (or even detonate them) in most situations unless the borgs or an antag removes the console. This already is quite the weapon crew have over borgs so I try keeping that in consideration.

[Sirryan2002]

thanks for looking at my suggestions, although if Charlie wants something (stamina hit that stuns vs. hardcoded stun), I would take their advice over mine.