Syndicate Bundles - Rebalancing and new additions

[AzuleUtama]

Something I've been planning for a little while now, a new set of syndicate bundles as well as rebalancing the existing ones. These haven't really been touched since 2020 and I felt changing them up a bit would encourage people to take a gamble on buying them more.

You can find a full design document I've made for this here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ub1OMjx0yxr45YOqrBeWZycONnJRNbYPaBrM0Vezz-k/edit?usp=sharing

The below is a summary of some of the information in the documents, though I would still recommend reading it for the full changelist.

What's been changed at a glance?

• 7 reworked or modified bundles (Spy, Hacker, Bond, Thief, Bio-chip, Darklord, Professional)
• 3 new bundles (Agent 13, Infiltrator, Operative)
• 1 unchanged bundle (Payday)
• 1 removed bundle (Sabotage)

Why change the existing ones?

Mainly to change things up a bit since as mentioned prior, they haven't been really been touched since 2020 and the last new bundle added was back in 2019. Since then a lot of the things some bundles were balanced around (Sec borgs, instant stuns etc.) have been removed and more recently a fair number of syndie items had price reworks as well. Additionally, there were always certain bundles which I felt really needed a complete rework or removal, owing to them being very situational or not a long of fun for the traitor who received them (Hacker and Sabotage, specifically).

Why remove Syndicate Encryption keys from most bundles?

They were originally added to encourage multiple traitors who bought the bundles to team up with their specialized kits. Since codeword highlighting is now a thing it's easier and more common for traitors to use them instead, as well as some people not liking the encryption keys due to sec being able to use them if taken from a traitor. They're still in bundles where they fit the theme but no longer a freebie in every one, which frees up some TC in bundles for other more fitting items to take their place.

 

If you have any feedback, criticism or further questions not covered above or in the design document, please post em below!

[Generaldonothing]

Really cool bundle ideas! Got a couple of notes however:
*I will absolutely resprite the esword to look like a laser rapier more for specifically the hacker bundle I love that
*Noslips should probably stay in the spy bundle 
*I'm not sure exactly what should be nerfed in it, but the implant bundle is a bit silly currently, perhaps it should be knocked down a peg?
*Darklord seems absolutely absurd, I would not put in instant summons if I were you
*The operative kit gets an APS, an absolutely incredible weapon on par with the saber SMG, I would be majorly hesitant to give that to normal traitors
*You should probably give people normal ammo rather than HP, due to it being.... uh questionable.
It all seems really cool though, and I'll be trying these combos out on a local server!

[AzuleUtama]

1 hour ago, Generaldonothing said:

*Noslips should probably stay in the spy bundle 

They are still in Spy, did you mean Thief? I removed them since as said in the doc, they didn't really make you sneakier or anything - they used to mute footsteps but a rework ages ago redid the footstep noises and undid that, so they are just kind of "there" for the sake of it. Thief was one of the strongest bundles outside of implant before, so I'm hesitant to give it anymore than the 35TC it has.

1 hour ago, Generaldonothing said:

*I'm not sure exactly what should be nerfed in it, but the implant bundle is a bit silly currently, perhaps it should be knocked down a peg?

I wouldn't be against it, but I know a lot of people love the implant bundle as-is and would probably not like the implant uplink especially being removed from it. There aren't many other implants that would work in my eyes - mindslave without other gear wouldn't be too amazing and the unused krav maga implant would be alright, but we have another kit in the doc that has the gloves - so would repeat a bit.

1 hour ago, Generaldonothing said:

*Darklord seems absolutely absurd, I would not put in instant summons if I were you

It seemed thematic and fun for traitors to use in the bundle - unless I'm forgetting you can still get instant summons on lavaland and traitors can technically get the 3*1 mime forcewall if they get the advanced mimery kit - so it didn't seem *too* absurd for both to be included. Is there a specific issue with instant summons that makes it broken?

1 hour ago, Generaldonothing said:

*The operative kit gets an APS, an absolutely incredible weapon on par with the saber SMG, I would be majorly hesitant to give that to normal traitors

I was originally considering a bulldog shotgun with ammo; but it didn't seem too unique, is basically the same as the revolver if using slugs and with the changes to lethal shells is much harder to get ammo for barring rubber shot. Sniper is used in another bundle and I absolutely was not giving traitors a C20r or M90. If it's that overpowered for them, would removing other items in the kit balance out the power?

1 hour ago, Generaldonothing said:

*You should probably give people normal ammo rather than HP, due to it being.... uh questionable.

Eh, it fit the theme of a hitman assassinating station staff pretty well, and I figured that if a traitor really hated the HP rounds that much, they can always get regular ones from a lathe to replace them.

[WolvesOfWar]

Regarding SEK removal, that seems off.

I feel like if you are removing it from some bundles, you should probably remove it from all of them, since as you mentioned earlier, SEKs are used to promote cooperation between bundle users and it doesn't make sense for some bundles to retain SEKs and some to not get them.

I do agree that SEKs are quite hit and miss though - they are useful when Syndicate Research Base is manned and you have someone watching your back, but otherwise it is underwhelming. That is kind of outside the purview of this thread though I believe.

Some other points I would like to raise:

• Krav Maga on Infilitrator seems a bit weird, considering the intent is to jump right into targets. I would have expected something more lethal to distinguish itself from Thief? (I might be wrong here, but Krav always seemed more of a defensive martial art compared to CQC and Carp)
• I feel like Hacker should retain the Binary Key - Being able to listen in to AI chatter would fit the 'opposing AI' theme
• A bit worried about Professional losing their fallback weapon if they lose their sniper rifle/ run out of rounds, and unsure if the sniper rifle will be useful in a chase, but I don't have enough experience with sniper rifles to be sure here.

2 minutes ago, AzuleUtama said:

I wouldn't be against it, but I know a lot of people love the implant bundle as-is and would probably not like the implant uplink especially being removed from it. There aren't many other implants that would work in my eyes - mindslave without other gear wouldn't be too amazing and the unused krav maga implant would be alright, but we have another kit in the doc that has the gloves - so would repeat a bit.

It might work to remove Microbomb and/or Storage and fill it in with some station-made implants? (Or maybe station-made implants, but hardened so that using your EMP implant wouldn't immediate murder you?)

Not sure if it would work well (Since you would need to supply autosurgeons, which means tots can really snowball with Robotics implant), but giving Bio Chip Bundle CNS Rebooter/SecHUD implant/Upgraded Cyber Heart (Or if the Bundle is too weak, Antidrop) that they can install themselves might work.

[Generaldonothing]

47 minutes ago, AzuleUtama said:

They are still in Spy, did you mean Thief? I removed them since as said in the doc, they didn't really make you sneakier or anything - they used to mute footsteps but a rework ages ago redid the footstep noises and undid that, so they are just kind of "there" for the sake of it. Thief was one of the strongest bundles outside of implant before, so I'm hesitant to give it anymore than the 35TC it has.

Whoops, misread, that's fine

47 minutes ago, AzuleUtama said:

It seemed thematic and fun for traitors to use in the bundle - unless I'm forgetting you can still get instant summons on lavaland and traitors can technically get the 3*1 mime forcewall if they get the advanced mimery kit - so it didn't seem *too* absurd for both to be included. Is there a specific issue with instant summons that makes it broken?

The issue comes down to the dsword, it already has limited counterplay due to its high block chance and 100% chance to block all energy related weapons, adding instant summons will just reduce counterplay further as losing your dsword is no longer a factor. It'll just make an already kind of frustrating item to deal with worse, I do like the mini forcewall idea though.

1 hour ago, AzuleUtama said:

I was originally considering a bulldog shotgun with ammo; but it didn't seem too unique, is basically the same as the revolver if using slugs and with the changes to lethal shells is much harder to get ammo for barring rubber shot. Sniper is used in another bundle and I absolutely was not giving traitors a C20r or M90. If it's that overpowered for them, would removing other items in the kit balance out the power?

You could give this to hijack only players, might be interesting. But TBH a saber SMG (an already extremely strong weapon) that does 10 more damage per bullet seems a bit too strong for a bundle item with respect to other options.
 

1 hour ago, AzuleUtama said:

Eh, it fit the theme of a hitman assassinating station staff pretty well, and I figured that if a traitor really hated the HP rounds that much, they can always get regular ones from a lathe to replace them.

I'd probably swap out a mag for the agent with a AP one, so you get both AP and HP

[AzuleUtama]

Some updates based on feedback received:

• Agent 13 now has a regular and HP magazine, following advice on the HP rounds being difficult to use well, especially against security. Also adds a chameleon jumpsuit (but no voice changer) for "blending in" a bit easier.
• Infiltrator now includes a single-use autosurgeon with a mesons implanters loaded in following feedback on the teleporter really needing mesons to work well. The code for this exists already but is mostly unused - once the autosurgeon is used or the implant removed it cannot be re-used at all.
• Operative now uses a Bulldog shotgun instead of the APS due to balance concerns on the 3-shot 30 damage rounds being too strong for traitors. The bulldog comes with a magazine of each ammo type available for nukies; Slugs (Loaded in the gun), Buckshot, Dragonsbreath and most notably Meteorslug. This should keep the bulldog shotgun interesting to use in spite of the weaker options to reload it with.

[dafrek]

Seems like a cool rework, although I would suggest keeping the edagger in the sniper bundle as it really seems to fit that bundle and I maybe keeping the cham gas mask and ID in the darth lord bundle as it was intended for the user to give themselves a funny darth lord name.