Remove Vulp/Taj Darksight

[Rurik]

Nobody should get a benefit as massive as roundstart NV simply for choosing a specific race. Seeing people first, especially when it comes to antags/sec dynamic, is an absolute massive advantage. Slime people being able to ventcrawl while naked was more fair then this. Vulp/Taj should have their race centered darksight removed. 

Or, re-add darksight to cling "Augmented Vision" so I can at least see the vulp oFFICER BOLA'ING ME FROM PERFECT DARKNESS HOLY FUCK

[Carthusia]

Do you have any pictures to show just what the difference is?

Ive never really played a character that has this 

[WingedYordle]

It’s a few shades lighter.

if we are removing this then vulp/taj should have something else. They don’t have much else going on

[FloPerfecto]

1 hour ago, WingedYordle said:

It’s a few shades lighter.

[dafrek]

Vulps really don't have any maluses that counterbalance how their strong night vision is, their two main maluses being a whopping 11% faster hunger rate and extra eye damage from flashes, which, unlike moths, can be easily negated just by wearing eye protection.

Tajarans at least have a bigger downside that replaces the hunger rate malus, that being a lower heat threshold, however that comes with a higher cold threshold as well.

[Charliminator]

5 hours ago, WingedYordle said:

It’s a few shades lighter.

this isn't how darkness works.

while yes it is "a few shades lighter" its not about the amount of "lightness" its about the *range* humans get a "see_in_dark" var of 2, they can see the tile they are on + 1 more. vulps get 8. 

[WolvesOfWar]

So... Why not just strike a balance between #6123 and #8468 instead, and have non-colourblind vulp/taj have see_in_dark of 3-5, and keep colourblind vulp/taj at 8? (Or if you would rather go the nuclear route, just do 3-5 for vulps and tajs in general)

 

Another interesting idea is #8688, but it died because the coder couldn't port it. Perhaps someone could have another crack at it? (I know, WYCI, but I do believe that this might be a way to solve the darksight issue.)

 

6 hours ago, WingedYordle said:

if we are removing this then vulp/taj should have something else. They don’t have much else going on

This is also a problem - If darksight is entirely removed from vulps, then they literally have nothing going on for them in terms of boons/maluses other than +11% hunger and claws. Flash vulnerability is usually pegged as a malus to darksight, so there would need to be more boons/maluses for vulps and tajs.

[Charliminator]

I cannot support the complete removal. I can however support it being toned down from fully powered vampire levels. 

[dafrek]

9 hours ago, WolvesOfWar said:

So... Why not just strike a balance between #6123 and #8468 instead, and have non-colourblind vulp/taj have see_in_dark of 3-5, and keep colourblind vulp/taj at 8? (Or if you would rather go the nuclear route, just do 3-5 for vulps and tajs in general)

I'm really surprised that not only was #8468 merged despite overwhelming opposition by the player base, but vulps/tajarans also haven't been properly balanced since then. While I would personally prefer to see species based night vision removed, since its an extremely strong passive ability to have, as long as they have a bigger downside than taking more damage from flashes, which is extremely easy to completely negate, then they would at least be more balanced.

[Shadowradar1212]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:01 PM, Charliminator said:

I cannot support the complete removal. I can however support it being toned down from fully powered vampire levels. 

seconded, vulps should keep their quirk, but it should be like, one extra tile, not just flat out low-light NVs, since... all you have to do is turn your screen brightness up, which isn't that difficult honestly speaking.