Admin complain: Miraviel

[Taac]

Admin(s) Key: Miraviel
Your ckey (Byond username): taac
Your Discord name (if applicable): taac#2464

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 11:24am 11/29/2022

ROUND ID: 33672

Nature of complaint: misapplication of rules/rules clarification?
Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):
During the round I witnessed someone getting kidnapped so I went it with a maint stetchkin and attempted to help them

Full description of events:
During the round there was a black unathi vampire running around being very loud (on a round with approximately 15 active crew), as an umbra vampire that had plunged half the station into darkness, by this point in the round they had already killed a member of the ERT, taking their weapons and ID, so now running around with all access, and all the weapons they could want, the ERT captain had cryoed, leaving a single ERT, and as far as I'm aware a single security officer to attempt to handle the threat, As I'm walking down the main hall outside the morgue replacing lights I witness the vampire rush out and kidnap someone and drag them into the morgue, I go in and pull my handgun knowing this vampire was already violent and killing almost anyone they came across, Shooting at the vampire I land (I believe) three hits before my gun runs empty, at this point the vampire pulls out an immolation laser gun I assume they got from the ERT and lights me on fire, so I attempt to chase them with a combat knife I picked up off the ground in arrivals, being an IPC i figured I had atleast half a chance to set him on fire to buy the kidnapped human time to get out of the morgue, the vampire stuns me and drags me away into maints where they behead me (being an ipc not the biggest of issues) and finally kill me, my body is found soon after

After I'm revived I get bwoinked telling me not to valid hunt I explain what happened, Mariviel attempts to tell me that that's still valid hunting so I quote from the rules the section of rule 8 involving the defense of yourself or others from antags ("You may, however, defend yourself or others from Antagonist attack if you happen to witness it) then Mariviel tells me "The thing here is running after them. Shooting an antag when security/ERT is actively engaging them can easily roundend them, and we don't want non-security crew to do that." when security was no where to be seen, and I'd understand if I chased the vampire into maints running around shooting at then, but I stepped over one room from the med main hall, into the morgue. I tell them this and that again someone was getting activly kidnapped and they tell me "I cannot rephrase it anymore. Don't attack antagonists with incredibly lethal weaponry when they are engaged with security. If you are really trying to rule-lawyer here: "you may defend yourself or others" - you don't need to defend anyone if security is there. Don't do it, and this is the end of the conversation." I have absolutely no clue where they found the "you don't need to defend anyone if security is there" because it's not listed in the rules, and again security was not there, not until after the fact, they also brought up a note that was, at minimum four years old (if it's what I think it was)

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Taac
updated nature of complaint, clarified something

[Sirryan2002]

Hello and thank you for writing this admin complaint. I appreciate that you brought this incident here for rules clarification as opposed to continuing this in-game in admin PMs.

This is certainly a grey area ruling so I can see perhaps why this isn't clear. As part of our rule 8 clarifications/precedents, we do allow some form of "rescues" for kidnapped coworkers to a small extent which was likely your justification behind shooting the vampire with a stechkin. However, in this scenario you escalated combat more than the vampire did in this case by immediately shooting them 2-3 times. While rescuing kidnapped coworkers is fine, involving yourself in security vs. antag combat generally is not and in this case I would agree that you went overboard to the point of it being validhunting. The reason why I say this is 1) because of your own escalation and 2) you immediately went with a highly lethal takedown. In this case its not just a rescue anymore and you are actively hunting/taking-down an antagonist.

The rules were applied appropriately in this situation and I hope this clarified the ruling for you; There is not enough evidence in this case for rules misapplication so this admin complain is resolved.