Admin Warning system Complaint Requesting Clarification

[Skoth]

Admin(s) Key: Tourte? (Not sure if its the same person for both warning instances)
Skoth
Gray

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred):12/1/22 (Also reference of other "incidents" on other rounds)

ROUND ID: Round #33700

Nature of complaint:

clarification required, feedback

I dont mean to sound ranty so ill try to keep this short. Ive been given a few warnings, now somehow on my last apparently, for self antaging when im not trying to be. In all instances of me "Self-Antaging" i have not been. Ive been "attacking" as a form of self defense, because when i try everything else i litterally cant seem to knock people over or grab them or whatever im tryign to do first to eithe defend myself or get my things back. The round specific one that ive just received a warning for is well deserved im sure i could have called for sec, but my experience with the server has led me to wonder what i am even supposed to do in "player versus player" scenarios.

My first instance that i can remember from quite a good time ago was i was near medbay, and there were rumors and sighting of Abductors on the station so i had a bat. Now i was still new to Space Station at this time so i dont really know what abductors really are or what they do, all i KNOW is someone came storming into the medbay shooting lightning everywhere and shocking everyone. Proceeded to what i assumed defend myself and everyone else around after getting shocked a few times, i do not believe he was killed, but i remember being admin stunned and then questioned relentlessly about what was happening, while also trying to answer questions at the same time from Sec Officers in game. APPARENTLY the sec officers were abductors in disguise and while i still couldnt do much about it is felt like i was walked into perma, and then taken by abductors because i had to deal with the admin, telling me i shouldnt be attacking people let Sec do their job. Even though sec was abducting me and not much was explained on the admin part of what was happening to me other than antag shenangins.

The second was something i was temp banned for, and was kindly released by Meow19 because of a misunderstanding. I was a sec office, which i dont play much of, and was asked direcly by HOS to remove people from the command deck of the shuttle, and i was banned for "fighting" on the shuttle when people refused to leave so i had to stun baton them and carry them out of the room. I didnt have much time to even do this because i was removed from play.

This last warning i was given i was genuinly asking for advice on what i should even do, because of the nature of the game you sometimes dont know who the antag is, and if i have to always scream for sec for every tiny thing i usually end up getting isnta gibbed, stunned, or dragged away into the mait. tunnels to be what ever preys food. There are not a lot of instances where i get the chance to practice any player versus player things so im just not that great at it. When an experienced player finds me im basically at their whim. The response im getting from admin is literally telling me just let shit happen to me there is nothing you can do about it, because if you do, if you attack ANYONE your gunna get a warning for it. I dont spend round after round looking for avenues to go and attack people, (unless im actually antag and even then i usually end up not doing it cause im bad). Im spending my time trying to learn the game and im getting backlash for trying to defend myself.

 

Full description of events:

Been given 2 warnings, first one didnt understand why, (as well as temp ban which was undone) and i understand dont kill but also wasn't given much help on what to do other than " Don't do that, End of conversation". Why do i have a bunch of warnings on my account/ profile or whatever for being overly hostile when ive gone through a quite a good bit of rounds where i haven't been aggressive at all, and generally helpful even.  I just try to defend my self and my things and people around me when its appropriate. Not sure why trying to defend your coworkers when someone is actually murdering them next to you is a bad thing. I feel like the "record" that i have for these warning make it out to seem like anytime its looked at i am a violent player who constantly tries to self antag when i dont. When do these warnings go away? Will i permanently just be labeled as a self antag player?? Am i just going to be perma banned for trying to defend myself again and just at the mercy of whatever experienced player wished to mess with me now???

Please i seek answers.

 

Sorry for the longish read.

[Sirryan2002]

Thank you for writing this admin complaint. Apologies for not getting to this sooner.  

I'll point you to this place in our rules:

Quote

Murder is not acceptable for non-antags. Killing should only be done in extreme self-defense, during an authorized execution, or in any situation Security can employ lethal force. If you wish to murder, or at least seriously injure, someone, Administrator permission is required;

Violence capable of inflicting serious damage to someone, especially anything that places them into a critical state, is reserved for Antagonists. Outside Self-Defense, this kind of violence is not permitted;

Self-defense is allowed to the extent of saving your own life. Putting someone into Critical Condition is considered self-defense only if they attempted to severely hurt/kill you. Preemptively disabling someone, responding with disproportionate force, or hitting someone while they are already down, is not self-defense;

Self-antagging tends to be one of the more gray area sections of our server rules, sometimes the policy is not immediately clear. However, in the case of the clown I think the rules here are immediately clear. If you are not an antag or sec officer, violence is limited to only what is necessary for your own self-defense. Beating somebody for stealing something is over-escalation and considered self-antagging. If you're being kidnapped/attacked/killed, feel free to to harm the person back to the extent that you can get away to safety, but do not continue attacking them if its possible for you to successfully get away.

In the first situation, the player you were beating was likely a victim of abductor glands and they were not purposefully shocking people (its something out of their control). You could have instead walked out of the shock radius or tried to non-lethally subdue the player. You only had 50 hours at that point so it was definitely an honest misunderstanding and the admin at the time pointed you to the rules (particularly rule 8) so you could read and understand them in that context. That note will likely not be held terribly against you for that reason, but after the fact we do expect that you know the rules better but as indicated above you seriously broke the same rule again.

The way our note system works, is to note times when we see players break rules and generally also when we warn people. Notes are permanent but tend to lose influence on whether or not you will be banned as the note becomes older and less relevant. Will they influence rulings in the future? Yes. However they're not going to be unfairly held against you if you're honestly trying to understand our rules and actively work against breaking them.

If you need more clarification, you can reply and ask, however, do understand that I have limited free time and its players' responsibilities to understand the rules themselves. Otherwise I will close this in a week.