Changeling hivemind discussion thread

[Generaldonothing]

This threads purpose is to discuss the current state of the changeling hivemind link and to figure out if it's a positive addition to the antagonist or not.

The changeling hivemind is a pretty controversial topic at this time, even before the tripled chemical regen. A roundstart antagonist (Normally 5-7 of them on their own gamemode) having free roundstart communication tools between a non-team antagonist is a unique concept. Something being unique does not equate to any form of quality however, and many people feel that the general changeling experience would be far better off without it. 
I also would love to hear of any replacements for hivemind that people may wish to share, sometimes the alternative is simply better!
I've been running a survey recently, and it's pretty much tied between people who want it to stay vs those who want it gone (This is not a good thing)

Some common arguments from both sides;

Linglink supporters:

Encourages teamwork amoung changelings

Adds a native social element to a more combat focused antagonist

 

Linglink removal supporters:

Teaming changelings often get a numbers advantage out of the gate, leading to murderbone-y situations

The linglink is very safe, stuff like ; g am hop come for AA isn't a joke for no reason

 

(Sidenote: I'm not going to mention anything related to winrate because from the data I've gathered, people don't want to go for their objectives as a cling due to it not being fun to persue rather than it being a power issue)

 

So yeah just throw your arguments in this thread and people can discuss them

[Rurik]

Hivemind was perfect back when clings alone were squishy and weak.

Now, a single cling with the right loadout and map awareness can give security a run for their money. Two clings working together with moderate skill can defeat the entirety of sec. Three and its pretty much a guaranteed ERT call, especially if they train together, doing each-others objectives.

Hivemind needs to be updated to reflect this newfound individual strength, and that update should be outright removal. I am willing to accept it being made into a 2 point genome cost, anything is better than free, but outright removal is still preferable.

[Coolrune206]

I'm not a fan of the Hivemind in its current implementation at all, for a few reasons. The first and most importantly is its tendency to lead Clings into a team death-ball scenario, where they just group up and plow through any opponents (because several people who can revive any time you manage to take any down and can prevent you from perma-killing any if they fall is a massive pain to deal with for anyone). Secondly, Changelings already have a generally decent way to locate each other in a more natural way that requires them to actually do something, by stinging someone to no effect - similar to how Vampires can locate each other with ineffective glares. Thirdly, it just makes no sense at all - these creatures aren't actually hivemind entities, visible from how they act on entirely different objectives and quite frequently in opposition to each other. It's more like just chemical signaling but rangeless.

My suggested alternative, if simply removing it (which I'm also down for) is off the table, would be a more limited hivemind where Changelings have to physically establish it with each other and it deteriorates over time or perhaps distance. A similar form of this already exists in the weird ability to jam someone into the Cling Hivemind, I think reworking this to be how the Hivemind works properly would be a decent way to do it code-wise, so you actually have to locate a fellow cling in the field then jack them into your own communications.

[henri215]

5 hours ago, Coolrune206 said:

I'm not a fan of the Hivemind in its current implementation at all, for a few reasons. The first and most importantly is its tendency to lead Clings into a team death-ball scenario, where they just group up and plow through any opponents (because several people who can revive any time you manage to take any down and can prevent you from perma-killing any if they fall is a massive pain to deal with for anyone). Secondly, Changelings already have a generally decent way to locate each other in a more natural way that requires them to actually do something, by stinging someone to no effect - similar to how Vampires can locate each other with ineffective glares. Thirdly, it just makes no sense at all - these creatures aren't actually hivemind entities, visible from how they act on entirely different objectives and quite frequently in opposition to each other. It's more like just chemical signaling but rangeless.

My suggested alternative, if simply removing it (which I'm also down for) is off the table, would be a more limited hivemind where Changelings have to physically establish it with each other and it deteriorates over time or perhaps distance. A similar form of this already exists in the weird ability to jam someone into the Cling Hivemind, I think reworking this to be how the Hivemind works properly would be a decent way to do it code-wise, so you actually have to locate a fellow cling in the field then jack them into your own communications.

This suggestion but without it deteriorating over time/distance.

[Shadowradar1212]

I'd just ditch it honestly, changlings should be monsters that thrive as their own individuals, also hivemind can't be stopped via any means but unconciousness and death, changlings really do not need it, especally as its completely non-interceptable.

I'd prefer changlings to move towards being viable solo antagonists that threaten all life aboard the station like the monsters space law claims them to be, rather than just a funny meth speed person with an armblade who can sometimes eat up your stuns and can't revive if you decap them with anything ranging from a glass shard to a circular saw.

[Coolrune206]

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/20375 has been made with the intent to address some of the problems with Changeling Hivemind, please leave any feedback you may have there.