Make Vox less shit.

[Rumiluntti]

 

Vox as a race have been nerfed beyond shit, some nerfs have been intentional and some as a byproduct of code changes.

 

 

-Leap is useless at best, possibly even deadly to the user. The original leap was broken as hell but the current one could be changed to just gib you. Result is the same.

-N2 tank. Takes up your backpack slot. You can't fill any other tank with N2 and use it instead, just does not work.

-Vox used to be spaceproof and it was hilarious. No more.

-Vox now even bleed, awesome new way to die from being an idiot and pressing that leap button!

-The random SKREE! when you speak makes sneaking impossible.

-1 Vox hardsuit on the station.

-No cloning

-Dexalin and dex+ kill you.

 

Only things Vox get is the vacuum resistance (vacuums do jack shit damage anyways.) and ability to be the best clown and the most terrifying mime.

 

[Bone White]

 

I don't play Vox, so you're going to have to explain the problem with less bias and more information.

 

The only one I can comment on is the second one, and I've even managed to mix anaesthetic for vox, so I don't understand what you mean by "you can't fill any other tank with N2 and use it instead", because you should be able to.

 

[Scrat]

 

To explain.

 

Previously, Leap would allow you to tackle a person nearby and throw them to the floor and give you an aggressive grab. Now the leap knocks both the Vox and the target down for the exact same duration so it is completely useless, it cant even allow the Vox time to get the fuck out of there.

 

Also previously, Vox could survive in space without a hardsuit but cannot anymore.

 

Previously yet again, Vox didnt bleed nor have blood. Now they do.

 

When speaking, randomly Vox characters will emit a "Skree!" noise audible for a fair distance, making sneaking, the main Vox skill, difficult.

 

[Mark9013100]

Important: Vox were never made for normal play.

[Allfd]

 

I hope to go through each point and give some of my own thoughts, in the interest of disclosure I play Vox frequently. It would be my hope that we could have a discussion about these changes and perhaps reach some sort of consensus.

 

Before it’s lost in the wall of text, I am more than willing to spend my time coding up fixes for these things if the community and management is amicable.

 

That said, I can't resist a good bullet list!

 

 

Important: Vox were never made for normal play.

 

Arguably with the changes made to the codebase such as support for Vox as Nuke Ops, introduction of the Vox Embassy, the nerfing of leap, and most obviously being whitelisted. I would instead say "Vox were not originally made for normal play"

 

Vox as a race have been nerfed beyond shit, some nerfs have been intentional and some as a byproduct of code changes.

 

I can't speak for the reasons behind the balance changes and I don't have a fully formed opinion about how the Vox compare stat wise to other species on the station I agree that the Vox have lost considerable amounts of positive attributes while not shedding any of the disadvantages they were given to offset those advantages. While this was warranted in the case of Leap as the Vox were originally intended as an antagonist species, other changes don’t seem to have been for specific balance issues or even intentional.

 

-Leap is useless at best, possibly even deadly to the user. The original leap was broken as hell but the current one could be changed to just gib you. Result is the same.

 

This fix for this was brought in from the baystation code on Jul 1st, and only effects crew Vox, however since bay no longer supports Vox as crew I would not expect a change in this code from them.

 

Instead of reversing it I would suggest just removing the src.weaken line, no grab is initiated and the Vox can then run. The return statement would stay where it is preventing the grab. This if statement may need to change anyways as it can prevent even antagonist Vox from leaping as originally intended.

 

-N2 tank. Takes up your backpack slot. You can't fill any other tank with N2 and use it instead, just does not work.

 

This does work, if you empty a small tank in an air pump and then fill it with Nitrogen it should work. Purely as my own opinion I support the Vox not having use of the backpack slot unless they go to this length as it fits their character. I would not want to have Vox weaknesses nerfed in addition to strengths.

 

-Vox used to be spaceproof and it was hilarious. No more.

 

The Hostile Environment change introduced a number of balancing issues. That however should probably be for another thread.

 

-Vox now even bleed, awesome new way to die from being an idiot and pressing that leap button!

 

This took me by surprise and I did not even thing to check for it until reading this post, but yes Vox have blood as of 2 days ago or so. It was done as part of a balance change although I cannot answer why this was changed. "| NO_BLOOD" was removed from a line of code.

 

-The random SKREE! when you speak makes sneaking impossible.

 

It makes it difficult, I have had this happen while playing as a Vox and trying to be discrete. Most of my concern comes from its effect on Role Playing, it tends to activate at the worst possible times and never when it would be effective. The player now has some more control over this as the *scream emote will not cause Vox to skree instead of giving off a human scream. If there was consensus the change would not be a difficult one to remove the random screeching.

 

-1 Vox hardsuit on the station.

I have little problem with this, and even less of one should the Environmental issues be fixed.

-No cloning

 

This makes sense from a lore perspective, no other species has been able to reverse engineer the process used to grow Vox or the cybernetic implants used to regulate body functions to the extent necessary to clone them. According to the Wiki attempts to even grow Vox skin have failed.

 

From a gameplay perspective I was fine with that, the Vox could take slightly more damage than others due to not bleeding to death, were able to survive a good amount of time in space, and had an arguably overpowered leap.

 

Now that all that has been taken away you are just as likely to die as a human, only you’re not going to be cloned. The first impulse of many players on seeing a cloning machine rejection is to shove you in the morgue with no hope of retrieval even when the morgue lights illuminate green. I flatly refuse to use LOOC for any hints to medical staff and as such spend a lot of time browsing the internet waiting for the round to end.

 

-Dexalin and dex+ kill you.

 

As it should, although perhaps cyanide should not.

 

I have been killed by many a helpful doctor, at the time I believed this an appropriate counter for any strengths.

 

 

Only things Vox get is the vacuum resistance (vacuums do jack shit damage anyways.) and ability to be the best clown and the most terrifying mime.

 

This was a major strength before the environmental change, now however I agree that it has been reduced in value significantly.

 

 

- Vox cannot be named.

 

This is up with the recent blood change as things that I would like to see changed.

 

I of course don't mean something like John Smith, however if Vox could retain any name, even one set by an Admin that would go a long ways. The random name puts a significant damper on RP.

 

 

 

Final Thoughts

 

I can understand where Rumiluntti is coming from in this, it was a long time to save up the karma needed to unlock Vox, and I can't speak for him but as for myself I knew where I was heading from when the counter read 0 after my first karma unlock. Nobody wants to see something they worked hard for devalued without explanation and that's something I understand. With that all said it does leave somewhat of a bad taste. Vox are nowhere near the most robust or "overpowered' of the species since the leap nerf put their martial strength in line with the Tajaran, one could even argue that they are worse off in a practical matter as the Nitrogen tank can be quickly removed by an adversary to ensure a kill and its existence greatly reduces the amount of equipment a Vox is likely to have.

 

The population of Vox players is very low even compared to slime people, any adjustment to balance must have a commensurately low effect on the balance of the round while having a disproportionately large effect on the Vox players themselves.

 

 

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Rumiluntti]

Vox are space proof again. I can SKREK at meat from spess, my life is whole again.

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Since i had enough karma to play vox i stuck with it. I think you can have tons of funs as a vox due to fact that you can get away with almost everything if you rp it right. I do like what position vox have inside the community and i think it totally fits my playstyle to do some random stuff and have fun with other people.

 

I do aggree that the vox raider leap mechanic is overpowered for a normal non-antag but i also have to aggree that the new mechanic does not add much to the game. Its only use is that both player drop anything they are holding and you can initiate a coinflip who gets the weapon your target was holding. I have learned how to use this to my advantage and manage to win most of this coinflips but i don't like it regardless.

 

You are obviously working with a huge disadvantage due to the fact that you have to keep your nitrogen tank on you. Not only is it an easy way to kill you (stun, take tank and run. At this point you are done, there is no easy access to nitrogen tank or canisers). But also do you have to micromanage your very precious bag slots. (You are missing a backpack and with that the ability to carry boxes) I kinda like that, it makes your gameplay more interessting and you have to think about what items you really need and not just take everything. But i am not talking just inconvenience here, without a armor a vox is unable to store a weapon bigger than a taser and even then you are wearing it semi visible. It has real impact on gameplay.

 

Sometimes you are able to work around it, use extended oxygen tanks and fill them with nitrogen, but you require at least two to make it work and they won't last very long either. This is only feasible if you have constant access to nitrogen tanks, e.g. engineering, atmos or since. You don't want to die in the engineering hallway waiting for an atmos tech. Maybe the Vox ambassador might change that. The best way to work around this is having an geneticist that gives you the gene that removes the need to breathe.

 

I think it's just fair that the vox keeps the ability of beeing able to eva without a spacesuit especially due to the fact that there is only a single vox hardsuit on the entire station. I totally dislike the fact that vox have blood now. I just don't get why they suddenly need to have blood, it seems odd to me. I would like to see that also be changed back.

 

I really like the change that vox can shriek on command now, that's awesome! Maybe something could be done about the random shriek, maybe it should not be triggered while whispering.

 

I would also state some minor bug with the random skriek: I am playing with WASD mapping and if i hit T every command i send could trigger a shriek. Like *sigh, *shrug, or even if i hit OK/Enter if the field is empty..