Murder objective change

[Nerfection]

I know many people are dissatisfied with the way assassinate objectives currently work; requiring permadeath by default. I'm aware that solutions like leaving a calling card have been brought up, but I realised we already have a working solution in-game.

..and it's the 'steal station blueprints' objective. 

This objective doesn't require the station blueprints to be physically stolen, so long as a photograph of them is (as it's the information that the Syndicate want, not the paper it's printed on). We could do the same with killing - either the target is dead at round-end (success), or you kill them and bring a photograph of their body with you at round end (success). 

This would solve the permadeath issue which many have, while still having the killer vulnerable due to carrying the photo with them.

That is the end of my shower thought. Goodbye.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Nerfection
typo time

[henri215]

Security would arrest someone because of a corpse picture? How that could be done to 100% incriminate them?

[Nerfection]

It would be unlikely to be 100% incriminating, but certainly would provide some significant evidence to go alongside the other physical evidence sec would gather.

[DGamerL]

It would give use to the most useless feature since paper cult was removed: hiding pieces of paper in vents

 

I like the idea, would every tot spawn with a camera if they had an assasination objective then?

[Sadhorizon]

Eh, people being revived by traitors out of "kindness" would mean death has EVEN LESS impact than currently.

Photo is a cool idea, yes, but it shouldn't be equal to someone STAYING dead.

[Nerfection]

I'm not sure why traitors would revive victims out of kindness, but if permadeath objectives are on their way out anyway, I thought this may be a better system than others I've seen suggested.

[Sadhorizon]

20 minutes ago, Nerfection said:

I'm not sure why traitors would revive victims out of kindness

So, the scenario I had in mind would be killing someone, taking a photo, and then reviving their target for OOC reasons - they feel bad IRL that they roundended someone. This would 100% happen, eventually.

Hence why a photo shouldn't be equal to permakill - traitors should still have SOME reason to make sure their targets STAY dead.

 

Otherwise, what is stopping you from doing that? I'm sure syndicate would NOT be happy that you are scamming them this way.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Sadhorizon

[Frank]

Not all shower thoughts turn into good ideas. Besides the problem of a traitor simply reviving their victim after taking a picture, there is also the problem of a traitor taking a picture of a targets corpse that they didn't even kill. After the morgue photoshoot they will simply go "lol i did it" and leave. This is fraud. Fraud is bad. 

I know murder objectives are unfun for the victim but lets be real here. There are way better solutions to this problem.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Frank

[procdrone]

maybe instead of changing how the assassinate objective currently works, add a new objective "teach XX a lesson by killing them, take photo proof"; which would bring some variety into violent objectives and sometimes just wouldn't force you to permakill your objective

thoughts?

/s shower thought

[Nerfection]

12 hours ago, Frank said:

there is also the problem of a traitor taking a picture of a targets corpse that they didn't even kill. After the morgue photoshoot they will simply go "lol i did it" and leave. This is fraud. Fraud is bad. 

While this is technically true, it ignores the fact that this is still an improvement on the current way assassination objectives work; whereby if your target dies for any reason it counts as a success, whether or not you had anything to do with their death (or even saw them at any point, dead or alive). The photo method would at least require some level of involvement/awareness of the victim's death. Not all criticisms turn into good ideas, either ;) 

A more relevant issue with this idea is the potential for victims to die 'offscreen' after an attack, preventing a death-photo being taken at time-of-death. This could result in the somewhat odd scenario of the assassin bursting into medbay like a mad paparazzo, trying to photograph their victim's corpse before it can be revived or cloned.

9 hours ago, procdrone said:

maybe instead of changing how the assassinate objective currently works, add a new objective "teach XX a lesson by killing them, take photo proof"; which would bring some variety into violent objectives and sometimes just wouldn't force you to permakill your objective

The reason I raised the photo idea was that there seems to be a push towards removing/heavily changing the current assassinate objective, but in the absence of that change I agree it could be interesting to have non-permadeath objectives - perhaps there could even be non-death objectives such as 'XX has upset Don Clownleoni, break his legs and take photo proof', but I suppose this strays into the area of minor-antags, which has been shot down on several occasions for various reasons.
 

[Frank]

10 hours ago, Nerfection said:

While this is technically true, it ignores the fact that this is still an improvement on the current way assassination objectives work; whereby if your target dies for any reason it counts as a success, whether or not you had anything to do with their death (or even saw them at any point, dead or alive). The photo method would at least require some level of involvement/awareness of the victim's death. Not all criticisms turn into good ideas, either ;)

While I can't say I fully disagree with you, what exactly does it improve? With how fast a crewmember can go from cloner to key witness, I don't think this change will have the desired effect. Leaving a revivable corpse behind for the good of the community doesn't exactly sound tempting. Murder is murder even if they are revivable and you have a photo. 

[AidanFair]

I'm fine with perma death assassinations. And I'm the victim of them factors more than the perpetrator. I'm going to go against the grain and say that it actually makes the game better. It adds risk. Ups the stakes. If you want to make things more fun for the perma dead, add some more fun ghost roles. The fact that you could be gibbed and have your brain made into burgers by the chef is a good thing. Or thrown into the SM crystal. Or cremated. It adds tension. And sometimes comedy.

If you're getting salty over perma death, maybe this game isn't for you. Maybe I'm wrong. But I feel like getting round removed is more of a feature than a bug for the atmosphere of the game.

[Nerfection]

24 minutes ago, AidanFair said:

I'm fine with perma death assassinations. And I'm the victim of them factors more than the perpetrator. I'm going to go against the grain and say that it actually makes the game better. It adds risk. Ups the stakes. If you want to make things more fun for the perma dead, add some more fun ghost roles. The fact that you could be gibbed and have your brain made into burgers by the chef is a good thing. Or thrown into the SM crystal. Or cremated. It adds tension. And sometimes comedy.

If you're getting salty over perma death, maybe this game isn't for you. Maybe I'm wrong. But I feel like getting round removed is more of a feature than a bug for the atmosphere of the game.

I very much agree with this sentiment (I'm also one of those nerds who'd prefer cloning to not be a thing; so as to make death even more impactful). My suggestion was for if permadeath objectives are on the way out - as seems to be the growing consensus. More ghost roles would always be appreciated, too!