State of assistants on paradise

[BottomQuark]

Lately we had some topics started where people voiced their displeasure with some people.

 

This topic especially had some people start talking about assistants:

 

So.. let's open a dialogue about them (even if just to free @Landerlow's suggestion of talk about it since it's not the main topic there)

 

We had people call assistants jobless or useless, call people standing in front of bridge as AFK etc.

So what do you all think about them?

Personally I had never seen in my playtime in medbay or engineering a single assistant that tried to help doctors/engineers.
I did see assistants getting their job title changed to "engineer trainee" or "engineer assistant"

Most helpful assistant I did see was some guy helping librarian start a newspaper.
I also did see people redecorating bar, or making new bar in fore-starboard maints but they usually change their job title so I dunno if you can count them as true assistants.

So do we have a problem with assistant's mentality? Both from the gamers that play assistant and from those who don't?

 

Also did we ever have an alternative titles for assistants like "Engineering assistant" and "Medbay assistant"?
I do think "Civilian" would fit better the role with how people treat it right now and maybe "Assistant" should be an alternative title?

[TerrorOnTheSeas]

I don't really have an opinion on this other than that I think the whole bridge hobo thing should be prohibited. This is the only server where I've seen that happen and it's weird for a MRP server like Paradise to tolerate people just standing there doing nothing.

[Tamabasil]

Apparently civilian was a thing of the past, but I'm unaware of what has happened to it.

The general consensus, which is also made clear in the thread by someone else, is that a character that goes from Command to Assistant is just on paid break/vacation or they're there by contract.

Assistant mentality is already shit on, if a person who is an assistant hangs out with other assistants they're classified as a metagang/clique.

People DO make friends here and just want to hang out; bridge hoboing is no different from hanging out in the dorms or the bar; which is specifically what those places are designed for. If they moved to the bar it'd suddenly be called 'bar hoboing', or moving to the dorms/holodeck. It's no surprise that a person who hears something going on in command would stand out there to find out the juicy gossip. It's what makes the station feel alive and gives people the opportunity to have their own closed off lore and connection separate from other people on station.

It's a non-issue to me.

 

[MattTheFicus]

Its a non-issue IMO.

If people have an issue with Bridge Hobos due to it making antagging around the Bridge hard, ahelp to bomb them.

Most Staff love giving permission to bomb the local Station homeless

[Landerlow]

It's not about making antagging around the bridge hard, I think. It's because it's generally annoying and is dumb in my opinion from a RP perspective. You're literally sitting/laying down in the middle of a busy hallway, in front of the most important area on the station. This has been an annoyance of mine since forever. There are specific areas to hang out. There's the dorms, the bar, even the library. There's a garden on the station too and lots of places in maintenance areas that you can build a cool hangout if you so desire. 

[Sadhorizon]

24 minutes ago, MattTheFicus said:

If people have an issue with Bridge Hobos due to it making antagging around the Bridge hard, ahelp to bomb them.

Not every god damn thing revolves around antags.

Bridge hoboing is weird, it's like... why tf are are you cleaning floors in bridge hallway, when your station is equipped with areas to ACTUALLY spend time in. It's odd to me, I don't like it, it takes content away from service department. Personally, I don't really care if mr. antag man has harder or easier time, as it's a SECONDARY issue.

 

 

Okay, back to the topic.

I would love if you could set the job titles!

"Assistant" is extremely simple and shallow title. Having titles like "Retired" and "Off-Duty" would be very fun, and would positively contribute to character arcs.

Having an "Intern" job title would also be very cool!

However, not sure if Assistant as a title should be department-specific, having an "Engineering Assistant", while cool, would honestly change nothing. People will take it cuz it sounds cool and do nothing with engineering. Leaving it only for HoP to set is probably better.

"Tourist" would imply you are not hired by NT. If they had no paychecks, it'd be cool. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

"Civilian" is maybe better, tho it's also even less deep than "Assistant". Woouldn't hurt, but also not a fan.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Sadhorizon

[TheBadPerson]

I don’t have an issue with assistants in their current state. I see it as a role where you want to be in the round, but just want to hang out without expectations. 
 

As for bridge hobos I’ve never really had a problem with it. The bridge is a nexus of activity, so it naturally draws people in. Is it LRP? Sure. But it’s an MRP server. Everything you see fluxes from LRP to HRP depending on the round and where you go and who you talk to. 

[BottomQuark]

About bridge hogging

I don't mind it personally.

While it would be nice to have people interact more with service department, some people have more fun from reading comms and looking at bridge do their thing.

It's not really my thing but I don't see an OOC problem with that.

RP wise it's stupid but eh, I don't care.

 

About titles.

I can see some people picking engineering assistant and not doing anything engineering related, but I don't think the idea would be a negative thing overall. For new players being able to change their title name to "Medbay assistant", go to medbay and just try to help, I don't think it's a bad thing.

Lets people know that there's a guy who wants to learn instead of having new players pick medical doctor and seeing that one guy who just walks around. 

And yes I realize there's a nurse title but it's not quite "Doctor trainee" and my example applies to every department (maybe except security). I'm spending third of 1/4 of my shifts teaching new people engineering and only like 10% actively ask for someone to teach them. Mostly I need to see the guy doing nothing or struggling with something and ask them directly.

I also like the idea of title "Off-duty" and yeah tourist makes little to no sense.

[MattTheFicus]

2 hours ago, Landerlow said:

It's because it's generally annoying and is dumb in my opinion from a RP perspective.

Hobo-ing is its own issue. Assistants as a fine are whole.

If Paradise wants to make being a Bridge Hobo a LRP thing and enforce it, then it would need to be brought up as a Rule.

[Endar]

20 minutes ago, MattTheFicus said:

If Paradise wants to make being a Bridge Hobo a LRP thing and enforce it, then it would need to be brought up as a Rule.

 

[TerrorOnTheSeas]

Bridge hoboing is dumb from an RP perspective because if you really wanted to hang out somewhere you wouldn't do it in a busy hallway. Imagine if on a college campus a bunch of students just brought folding chairs and sat on the path leading to the administration building instead of sitting in the grass, cafes, or other amenities the university offered. That's what bridge hoboing is. Hanging out in the bar, dorms, garden, or library makes sense because that's what those rooms are designed for.

I'd like to emphasize again that bridge hoboing really only happens on Paradise. We should ask ourselves why that's the case. Obviously standing in front of the bridge to look what command is doing or talking to them shouldn't be prohibited but this whole meme of people bringing couches and chairs just to lie down in front of the bridge should stop. Maybe it's something that can be enforced IC instead of OOC like a no loitering law or something.

[Aligote]

53 minutes ago, TerrorOnTheSeas said:

Bridge hoboing is dumb from an RP perspective because if you really wanted to hang out somewhere you wouldn't do it in a busy hallway.

...yeah people do that. People hang out around streets, hallways, and all sorts of busy places of a university. But even if it isn't the most realistic, it's also not terribly unrealistic either. This repeated assertion that you wouldn't hang around in a busy hallway is correct, the thing is it's NOT a busy hallway most of the time. People would pass by but there is no flood of passersby being impeded by people hanging around the bridge. It also actually seems like one of the places where people interact and roleplay with no real harm to anyone. Why not roleplay in designated areas like dorms? Because people do roleplay in those areas and decide to roleplay elsewhere as well. So like what some others shared, I think is a non-issue.

I also don't think the fact that it only happens in Paradise is a strong point, just because it's unique to a server doesn't prove it's terribly debilitating or anything. Personally, I think no loitering laws would be more detrimental than bridge "hoboing". I don't understand why you'd rather get players taken to jail for around 5-15 minutes than let them hang around a place, with no restrictions either. I just think people need to open their perspectives a little, I don't think its a big issue.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Aligote

[Aligote]

To address something from the original post, I don't think there's an implied uptick of displeasure with assistants. When posts involve a heated/bold topic in general, there is a likelihood of a long response on the forums. But as many posters have stated, they're fine with assistants as a whole. Just to say that I think those sentiments were overstated

Edited September 20, 2023 by Aligote

[TerrorOnTheSeas]

22 minutes ago, Aligote said:

...yeah people do that. People hang out around streets, hallways, and all sorts of busy places of a university. But even if it isn't the most realistic, it's also not terribly unrealistic either. This repeated assertion that you wouldn't hang around in a busy hallway is correct, the thing is it's NOT a busy hallway most of the time. People would pass by but there is no flood of passersby being impeded by people hanging around the bridge. It also actually seems like one of the places where people interact and roleplay with no real harm to anyone. Why not roleplay in designated areas like dorms? Because people do roleplay in those areas and decide to roleplay elsewhere as well. So like what some others shared, I think is a non-issue.

I also don't think the fact that it only happens in Paradise is a strong point, just because it's unique to a server doesn't prove it's terribly debilitating or anything. Personally, I think no loitering laws would be more detrimental than bridge "hoboing". I don't understand why you'd rather get players taken to jail for around 5-15 minutes than let them hang around a place, with no restrictions either. I just think people need to open their perspectives a little, I don't think its a big issue.

People might chat for a few minutes in the hallway or on a busy street but people don't make couches and put down tables at a busy intersection

[Aligote]

It's not a busy intersection, it's an open area with a plaque stamped on the ground and a window showcasing the workings of command.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Aligote

[procdrone]

An assistant job is an essential tool for both worldbuilding and game experience. Civies while would make sense considering the general trend of how players play, it makes 0 sense for them to be on the deep space private research station.

The problem is its 0 effort 0 responsibility & 0 overhead position with 0 requirements job to get into, so it is the main goto for people that intend to abuse in one way or another. You are mostly recalling the bad examples of assistants, or well, greytiders that give the whole role a bad taste. But its still important to have a role that allows people to play the game without any duties.

There are many service areas for these players, but for unknown reason, it became server culture to stare at the captain.

What would be a fix, however? Thats hard to say. maybe loitering could become a minor crime? during non-green alerts? But thats likely impossible to enforce.

[BottomQuark]

Well there's always an option to have windows on bridge be one-directional, so captain can see the hallway, but people from hallway cannot see the captain.
I don't think that really fixes the problem.

I don't really play on other servers but yeah I do see on average more people in front of bridge than in bar which is a problem own it's own and it would be nice if we did have it addressed in some way.

I would still like to see "off duty" and "retired" alterantive titles. These really cannot hurt since these are still generic and in character viable.

 

as for the other possible fix to prevent people from standing in front of the bridge....
We should not have a rule "Do not hang out in places not designed to do so" - it's just silly. That's up to head admin discretion tho
Maybe the bar should be made bigger and some new things should be added there to do?
I don't see people going to library to spend free time, nor chapel. Especially that most players have a vague idea of what god their character belives in, which is often different than the one chaplain praises.

If we would consider remaking parts of the map....
Maybe we should make it so there's a direct airlock from bar to arcade room?
I feel like arcade and holo are so out of the way that nobody cares about these two and this should be a place to spend some time if you don't feel like working.
Also some new games at arcade would be fun to not make it as repetitive experience.

[Charliminator]

3 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

Well there's always an option to have windows on bridge be one-directional, so captain can see the hallway, but people from hallway cannot see the captain.

Do we have any instances of this type of thing in game? Because i don't remember anything like this and I'm not sure if byond supports it 

[Aligote]

16 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

I would still like to see "off duty" and "retired" alterantive titles. These really cannot hurt since these are still generic and in character viable.

Apparently, on the HOP console, the assistant is listed as "retirement".

Edited September 21, 2023 by Aligote

[Endar]

6 hours ago, BottomQuark said:

Well there's always an option to have windows on bridge be one-directional, so captain can see the hallway, but people from hallway cannot see the captain.
I don't think that really fixes the problem.

Bridge shutters

[Miraviel]

Personally, as command, I just fully ignore bridge hobos, they annoy me endlessly. I want to see people walking up and down the hallway but I sometimes just use the shutters so I don't have to see minibar #39851 being built in the middle of a main corridor.

As for the phenomenon itself, I think we have bridge hobos because a lot of people love to see the security vs antagonists gameplay in person (and sometimes try to get involved as well, breaching our validhunting rule), and the best places to experience that are 1) the Bridge that is always a hotspot for both RP drama and mechanical conflict and 2) medbay.

I think a solution for bridge hobos would be making the bar/other recreational areas more mechanically interesting. Henri's NT recruitment arcade game, for example, lured a lot of people into the arcade / made them install new machines around the station. Some people know how to use cards well and host blackjack games in the bar. We need more of these, and then, I think, people will be less likely to gawk at command, waiting for the free circus, and instead they'd go and make their own fun.

[Meow19]

Bridge hobos are a curse and a plague upon the game.

[Endar]

5 minutes ago, Miraviel said:

security vs antagonists gameplay

at that point just observe

5 minutes ago, Miraviel said:

Henri's NT recruitment arcade game, for example, lured a lot of people into the arcade / made them install new machines around the station. Some people know how to use cards well and host blackjack games in the bar. We need more of these, and then, I think, people will be less likely to gawk at command, waiting for the free circus, and instead they'd go and make their own fun.

this needs people to want to do those, there is stuff to do but people need an INCENTIVE to do stuff like blackjack and $$$$$$$, on other servers like it was said this bridge hobo phenomenon does not really exist, so its a playerbase issue, I also see some people afk in chemistry, science, other places just because their friend is playing a job there, but the conversation has been derailed again and again, idk anymore so

Assistants as I see them are fine, I wish we could rename them, some jobs like chef have other job names they can choose on character setup, we can just install that feature for assistant and integrate some basic rp friendly names to jumpstart it, also most assistants with a gimmick will usually go to hop for a job rename get denied and break into hop office to change it anyway 

[Spacemanspark]

3 hours ago, Charliminator said:

Do we have any instances of this type of thing in game? Because i don't remember anything like this and I'm not sure if byond supports it 

Tinted windows. The old robotics layout had them for the surgery area. I'm unsure if they had full window variants, but some form of them did exist. 

[Endar]

2 minutes ago, Spacemanspark said:

Tinted windows. The old robotics layout had them for the surgery area. I'm unsure if they had full window variants, but some form of them did exist. 

check blueshield, nt rep, cmo office for more tinted windows