Prolathe Lock Boxes

[flimflamm]

 

A change was made and now dangerous or restricted items from the science pro-lathe come in lock-boxes openable only by security or a head. (not sure if RD can open it).

 

I agree with this and am not too shaken by it except for one instance. The new powered armor, which is still incredibly buggy, now comes in lockboxes. The justification I heard was that the armor statistics are too high, and so why not just have the diamond armor module locked?

 

They are basically never going to get used if they remain locked, and without the armor module (even with it because of their buggyness) they are rendered useless with a single stun shot...

 

those are my two bits, anyway, share opinions regarding prolathe lockboxes here.

 

[Nomzy]

 

Can't deconstruct stun revolver for research

If possible, maybe make it so when yo put a certain lockbox in the DA, it has the tech origins of what's inside?

 

[flimflamm]

 

I don't mind having to deconstruct an extra durand chip, but the plasma pistol will prevent weapons 6 and plasma 5...

 

It will induce more interaction between security and research, which could be good...

 

Overall I suppose I am for it... Just that powered armor issue though... They are already so underused and buggy that now they will simply never be used, and as a result likely never get fixed...

 

I like them because they help me during xenoarcheology... If i don't have lazer weapons to defeat the monsters i encounter at least I could run away from them...

 

[flimflamm]

 

I'm updating this thread because something is rotten in the heart of Scientopia...

 

It seems that only people i know of that can unlock prplathe lock-boxes are the HoS, Captain, and maybe the HoP.

 

Security cannot open them, RD,CMO, CE, cannot open them...

 

The pro-lathe items are simply not going to get used if this remains the case... I reckon they removed security access to them because the RD has security access and they don't want the RD to have easy access, but in doing so the pro-lathe is now so heavily nerfd that it's broken.

 

A few days ago I had to sit and listen while a ridiculous captain spent ten minutes lecturing me on how much of a favor he was doing me by unlocking a stun revolver box so I could deconstruct it.

 

I might make a new thread with some sort of poll to determine opinions about what should be locked, what should not be, and who should have access...

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

The required access for opening lockboxes is armory access...meaning Captain, HoS, HoP (since we all know what HoP's do...), and Warden can all open the boxes.

 

This is intentional and meant to be a nerf. Scientists have often ended up more armed and better equiped than the security force and are often taking on the role of vigilante/savior of the station. This is not the job's purpose nor is it a playstyle I want to encourage on Paradise of non-security personnel. The purpose of R&D is largely to enhance other departments and force co-operation. With the removal of lockboxes (and our shift from moderate RP to lighter RP, over time), science has morphed into a self-contained department that can pretty much do anything it wants without fear of retaliation...not healthy for game balance.

 

That said, for traitors, you can utilize an emag to unlock these boxes for your own nefarious purposes. Yes, I know that means changeling/vamp/etc can't utilize them,but...quite frankly, a player should be relying on the their primary abilities as that type of antag rather than secondary.

 

As for power armor specifically. I'll be frank, I'm not sure what code-base power armor came from, originally, but it does not have its roots in Bay, TG, or VG (or if it did, it's since been removed). The problem with power armor is two-fold: the armor module gives ridiculous stats in every single category, to the point of only being outclassed by adminbus only armors. The secondary problem is the movement speed bonus. Movement speed factors very heavily into how SS13 is played--just try playing on Goon vs our own and notice how much combat and security engagements change due to the dramatically different movement speeds. Power armor's speed boost makes an individual almost impossible to hit in a lot of scenarios because...well...things impacting movement in SS13 are ridiculously strong.

 

Why were these changes made? Again, to nerf science. Science has been amongst the strongest of departments for a long time now---over the past year, it has suffered from powercreep more than any other department. No lockboxes, fixed chem set, telescience, effectively its own botany, the addition of anomallies, and huge expansion of artifact finds, etc.

 

Everyone hates nerfs, especially when its to a job that we play a lot or hold dear, but ultimately, the larger health of the overall game does have to be considered.

 

[flimflamm]

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

So I totally agree with you that science is far and away the strongest department, and I do tend to agree with the argument that science needed a nerf.

 

Regarding powered armor I 100% agree with the fact that the diamond armor module makes you too durable (when it works), and I suppose I can force myself to publicly admit that the speed boost of powered armor is in fact ridiculously OP (I've always known that the speed buff was incredible, while most everyone else tended toward the opinion of "powered armor sucks", I knew the truth!).

 

I suppose I figured that the difficulty of getting the materials for powered armor (including the armor module) was the balancing factor, but in honesty I always personally found it easy to get plasteel and uranium while most people don't know how...

 

I did think though, that powered armor was something new and under development, but in the light you portray it (as some unknown import from a server with perhaps very different play styles) perhaps it is better left locked away. (To be honest perhaps it could even simply be removed, as there are serveral serious bugs with them that need fixing ( cannot weld to repair, sometimes the power module fails, sometimes the activation and deactivation triggers become inaccessible which leaves you stuck inside potentially unpowered and slow armor, and sometimes the individual modules turn off or on when they should be otherwise upon activation or deactivation of the suit))

 

Being in all likelihood the single most powered armor using-est player, and knowing how often they work and how often they bug, I can now only scarcely imagine myself making powered armor for any reason, given that getting them unlocked can be very time consuming, because the risk is greater compared to the new cost.

 

But enough about powered armor, aside from agreeing with your reasons for nerfing the prolathe, I still feel like there is some improvement needed to the way the science department works...

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

Create a new karma role: "Science Officer" - Is security but reports to the RD as well as directly to the HoS. - Has some science access, has a guard office in science, has sec access for arrests and such. -Most importantly can function as a kind of liaison between science and security...

 

Scientists and roboticists can give lock-boxes and mechs directly to them for delivery to security or to the HoS to be unlocked and used. Instead of me dragging a welded crate of E-guns through the hallways to security because of an alien invasion or a blob, this way an actual chain of custody and communication can take place, and for once the station at large might actually see the benefits of research weaponry rather than scientists simply arming themselves as always. This would also be a way that scientists could securely have lockboxes unlocked when they need to deconstruct what's inside instead of begging the ever busy RD to have someone unlock it, or spending an hour convincing the other skeptical heads of staff that you aren't going to kill people.

 

If you don't like that idea, then maybe make plasma pistol lock-boxes deconstructable for level 4 plasma and lvl 5 weapons?

 

[FarmWizard]

 

I wouldn't have a problem with it if the guy wasnt a total lawboner and didn't steal all science's "contraband" AKA Anything over research levels 3.

 

Seriously, half of what !!SCIENCE!! makes contraband for them and this guy would just arrest all of !!SCIENCE!! every single round.

 

[Fj45]

Adminhelp them for shitcurity then. There is also a reason why it would use karma points.

[Tassadaritze]

 

Can't deconstruct stun revolver for research

If possible, maybe make it so when yo put a certain lockbox in the DA, it has the tech origins of what's inside?

^

This, please. We need it. It's been only 4 rounds, and I'm already tired of asking a head to unlock my plasma pistol for research every shift.

 

[flimflamm]

 

Can't deconstruct stun revolver for research

If possible, maybe make it so when yo put a certain lockbox in the DA, it has the tech origins of what's inside?

^

This, please. We need it. It's been only 4 rounds, and I'm already tired of asking a head to unlock my plasma pistol for research every shift.

 

A lot of times as a scientist I do all the mining myself, all the research myself, I walk the roboticists through updating exo-fabs properly, and then at the end of it all, I need to go around looking for a head and beg them to unlock it while they begrudgingly do so and pontificate about extoll the virtues of safety protocols...

 

I think to myself, if this was one week prior, I would already have the plasma pistol, and if I was evil, would be shooting you with it... In short, I too feel exhausted at the prospect of having to deal with potential super condoms just to complete my job.

 

[Symbiosis]

 

Never played Scientist myself, but it's hard enough to get the HOS/HoP/Captain to do anything a lot of rounds. I can imagine this being an frustrating "hoop" to jump through... And a huge "fun-killer". Could we maybe add a warning/timer to creating things that Security gets in their channel?

 

Warning: Protolathe Construction beginning on *contraband*. USER: IVAN OOZE. ETA to completion: 3 minutes.

 

Just allow a que perhaps or simultaneous creation?

 

[flimflamm]

 

Science at first is one of the most tedious and difficult jobs to learn. It is not rewarding at the beginning and frankly takes a long time and a lot of experience to get good at (unless someone who knows sits there telling you every detail of the process). Once you are good at it however, it is incredibly easy, and your knowledge allows you to speedily do whatever experiments you like, giving you all the boons that come with success.

 

The lock-boxes are a nerf for scientists who can do it all themselves (I once brought 6 super cell upgraded energy guns AND powered armor and single handedly defeated a blob at around 15 minutes into the start of the shift), but for scientists who are already wildly hindered compared to others by a lack of experience, it is even more of a nerf, because now they will seldom be able to learn about things which come locked, and thus have much less incentive to learn or do the job.