Add a nonbinary option during character creation.

[somethingoranother]

I was recently told by a nonbinary member of the community that apparently it's a huge pain to play enby characters of most races because there's not really an option for such at character creation, and in order to have something closer to that option they need to spend a lot of time trying to get access to the genetics department. This seems like something that should just be a gender option by default.

[SynthTee]

While I totally agree with this, and would love more options for gender and pronouns, this was tried in the past with a PR in 2021 and it sadly got rejected. I hope things have changed now however, and maybe we can see this getting revived.

The PR is here.

[Spacemanspark]

Back in 2021 I agreed that the implementation of such a system would result in a lot of trolling and unwanted behavior. I still think that may happen--but times do change. I think it's time Paradise gave it a whirl, and provided proper representation for its enby playerbase. Many ss13 servers have implemented their own system for non-binary users and pronoun preferences, and have held onto it for some time. It'll likely require a bit more admin action to smack down the trolls, but hopefully with time that issue will fade after a bit. 

[SynthTee]

2 hours ago, Spacemanspark said:

Back in 2021 I agreed that the implementation of such a system would result in a lot of trolling and unwanted behavior. I still think that may happen--but times do change.

As a non-binary person, I been in SS13 servers where genderless and non-binary were options and I never seen it be used as trolling. Maybe because their community was more mature about this stuff, and/or they really cracked down on those kind of people.

Either way, it's 2023 and I think it's time to try this again. If people don't like it? Cope.

[Frank]

Wanna add more social constructs? Sure go ahead. But why nonbinary? Why not just call it none? Some races don't have two genders or any genders at all. Why not make it easier for ourselves and call it none? 

[Nerfection]

1 hour ago, Frank said:

Why not make it easier for ourselves and call it none? 

Well, we already have genderless, which is synonymous with 'none', but which is not the same thing as being enby. It'd be great to expand the lore of more species and their genders/sexes, but opening things up for people to RP their own gender identity in general seems cool to me too.

I'm all for it. 

Nerf

[Frank]

26 minutes ago, Nerfection said:

Well, we already have genderless, which is synonymous with 'none', but which is not the same thing as being enby.

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/23469

The PR adds genderless, which is none but not genderfluid. So genderless is either a less snowflaky term for nonbinary or the same thing (none). 

Either way, I can get behind this change as long as misgendering someone is never going to be penalized.

[Generaldonothing]

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/23469
This pr has been opened which will implement the change fyi

1 hour ago, Frank said:

Some races don't have two genders or any genders at all. Why not make it easier for ourselves and call it none? 

This is basically what the pr implements

29 minutes ago, Nerfection said:

It'd be great to expand the lore of more species and their genders/sexes

This scares me. it's like "the ancient ones" where the longer a story goes on the higher chance there is that someone writes something stupid related to it. I don't really think this is a good server for deep diving into the intricacies of domestic abuse on mars or something to that effect, nor do I believe this should be reflected in game in a way like that.

[Daeodon]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:24 PM, Generaldonothing said:

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/23469
This pr has been opened which will implement the change fyi

This is basically what the pr implements

This scares me. it's like "the ancient ones" where the longer a story goes on the higher chance there is that someone writes something stupid related to it. I don't really think this is a good server for deep diving into the intricacies of domestic abuse on mars or something to that effect, nor do I believe this should be reflected in game in a way like that.

I don't really understand how writing about a species' unique view on gender is any different than writing on what kind of food they eat or what kind of religions they have. It'd ultimately just be a different option in a dropdown menu that you're free to ignore.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Daeodon

[Daeodon]

More thoughts (sorry for rambling)-

In response to the "it'll invite trolling" argument I've seen before, I don't think that's really fair. The people that would target those with differing pronouns or create wild caricatures were already people that had no interest in following the rules surrounding bigotry. I actually have seen people make their character dark-skinned for the sole purpose of RPing a racist caricature; it'd be weird to argue we should only have light skin tones available in character gen because of that. The people using these features in bad faith aren't generally so subtle about it that avoiding it altogether "just in case" makes sense. A transphobe will just be transphobic if they want to be. Blocking features that people may genuinely like and make use of just because of a small handful of theoretical bad actors is, in my opinion, just letting them win.

As for writing lore about alien genders being too "weird" or "dumb", I don't really think gender is inherently any weirder, more taboo, or more convoluted than anything else we've had in the lore. "Here's this specie's unique genders as defined within their species, here's how they're viewed within their own society and without, how their different views may clash with other cultures, and how interacting with other species has changed and influenced their own perceptions" is all potentially very interesting to explore; and if you don't personally think that's interesting, and would rather RP your alien as a man or woman rather than a smorp or a plorp or whatever, that's fine. We're MRP; there's no rules on the server enforcing lore compliance. Nobody's gonna hold a gun to anybody's head and force them to be a plorp. You can just be a man or a woman and you don't really owe anyone an explanation. If you need an explanation, though, you could always just say your part of the planet adopted human ideas of gender due to cultural exchange, or your character was a cross-species adoptee, or your character's trying to fit in better with a majority-binary crew, etc etc etc. Really, if the very idea of "aliens with non-standard genders or gender roles" makes you uncomfortable, there's nothing forcing you to engage with it, and there still wouldn't be even if it was part of the official lore.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Daeodon