Admin Complaint - Gatchapod

[vspook]

Admin(s) Key: @Gatchapod
Your ckey (Byond username): vspook
Your Discord name (if applicable): 

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 2024-03-10

ROUND ID: 39498

Nature of complaint:
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)

clarification required, feedback

misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers

Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

 

Full description of events:

I'll keep try this short, as much as I'd like to write an "essay" to cover everything completely. I couldn't imagine myself wanting to read through it from an outside perspective, so I'll try not to ramble.

First I'd like to clarify that this admin complaint was coming regardless of the outcome of the Ban appeal, this isn't a retaliation for being rejected. It's a direct response to the conduct of Gatchpod, the day before my banning and from the day of. I felt it was more appropriate to only have one issue up at a time.

 

The day before the ban I noticed people in dead chat talking about atmos pipes, someone said that pipes are capped in pressure and I responded by saying they're not. Gatchapod then responds to me directly telling me they are capped. A little bit of back and forth and Gatchapod starts calling me a exploiter in dead chat because "I must be exploiting in order to get more pressure in pipes", and that he's not interested in what I have to say. Later in the conversation he tries to change the context (I believe this was after @Coolrune206 also agreed with me that pipes are not capped in pressure) by attempting to sway me and others involved into thinking he was talking about pumps, so I directly quoted his response of him saying that pipes themselves are capped in pressure, and there was no mention of pumps. At this point Gatchapod ended up looking ridiculous because he's been calling me a exploiter and being aggressive this entire time, just to be wrong and have dead chat and fellow Admin witness. (He only reluctantly apologized after I admin messaged him next round looking for clarification and a resolution because I was actively pumping in more gas than he argued was possible) 

The day of the Ban. I believe I was targeted because of the previous events. First I'd like to get the most obvious (misapplication of rules and misconduct) out of the way.

Quote from the ban appeal

(I'm Antag - Changeling)

Gatchapod: "Your victim has never flashed you and even if they actually did try that, you were wearing an engineering MODsuit, which is equipped with a welding shield."

 

They did exactly what he just claimed they didn't do and I took a screenshot of it on the day because I had a feeling this exact thing would happen

https://imgur.com/a/Kf8oJxZ (Insert image wasn't working properly)

I informed him in the same round this happened in admin PM also, with no response from him after. So for him to claim even now (1 week after) that I wasn't attacked with a flash is interesting to say the least. I assume there would be direct evidence in the logs of this so he must not have looked at them at any point from when I informed him on the day and during the response to the ban appeal. "even if they actually did try that, you were wearing an engineering MODsuit, which is equipped with a welding shield." This is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what I was wearing and I don't know why I'm put in a position where I even have to address such a statement from someone who plays this game. The intention would be to blind and harm me (In maints, alone together). You can't just attack someone then say they can't do anything about it because you didn't succeed. This is the equivalent of him shooting lazers at me but missing all his shots then me not being able to retaliate because technically he didn't harm me. If anything using flashbangs on people as non antag would be considered self Antaging would it not? So this guy will pose a threat to me either later or more immediately, As a active Antag or someone who is self Antag. You can't just attack Antags and not have them retaliate

 

I would really like specific clarification on if you're allowed to attack someone with a flash in maints and if you are completely immune from retaliation because you don't succeed, like @Gatchapod is stating (Especially attacking a Changeling / Antag). Also if hiding in maints flashing people is grounds for self antag

 

To summarize: Calling me a exploiter openly in chat for stating basic Atmos facts and berating me when he's in the wrong when it was non provoked besides disagreeing with him. Then which is what I presume as a targeted attack against me for the previous (the one day earlier) events by permanently banning me from antag for the one and only kill the entire round against a player who attacked me first, and with my roleplay intention of furthering my antag objectives by gathering DNA.

 

   

Edited March 19 by vspook

[Qwertytoforty]

Hi there. Sorry for the delay of this complaint. There is zero excuse at all, this is on us, no reason it should have been delayed this long.

 

Gatchapod does regret the deadchat argument. They shouldn’t have gone at you like that, what you were doing was not an exploit.

 

As for the flash, I hesitate to outright kill and space someone over someone flashing you once. As gatchapod said, we do not like changelings absorbing non targets without a reason, and assistant flashing you most likely isn’t worth it, much less spacing them afterwords. I do get wanting to fill out your DNA objective, however you can transform and dna sting someone to get past 5, you don’t need to absorb non targets to do that.

However, your image helps show something in logs that was a problem. As you mentioned, gatchapod found no logs regarding you being flashed.

 

Flashes, when blocked by welding shields, sunglasses, or other visors, will say “[user] fails to blind [target] with the flash!” This also makes an attack log.

 

However, in your video, it shows the flash succeeding despite the shields. This is only possible if...

Quote

 

/obj/item/toy/flash/attack(mob/living/M, mob/user)

    playsound(src.loc, 'sound/weapons/flash.ogg', 100, 1)

    flick("[initial(icon_state)]2", src)

    user.visible_message("<span class='disarm'>[user] blinds [M] with the flash!</span>")

 

A toy flash was used. Which makes no logs on the user. This is why there was no logs on gatchapods end, rather than a lack of looking through logs.

 

As for why you had a ban placed, gatchapod went with the recent warning you had about half a month earlier, where you blew up multiple TTV’s with 2 steal objectives. Considering that, an antagonist ban wasn’t the most unreasonable for absorbing and spacing a non target. I personally would have went with a warning, as it is a different antagonist, however you spacing the civilian while being talked to did not help your case. Please don’t space people when being asked why you killed someone, in the future.

 

 

As for how Gatcha noticed this, not because of a grudge with you, but as the person you killed brought it up in dchat, and when they checked your objectives, they saw you had no objective related to them

 

 

As for clarification on flash in maints / immunte to retaliation:

A person trying to flash you in maints (with a real flash, this was a toy flash in this case), you could disarm them, beat them up, if you were a vampire they would be perfectly fine to drain of blood, as that furthers your blood objective, but you should not be killing, or spacing, people that flash you once. If anything, call security on them unless you yourself is wanted. I will disagree with gatcha and say a person attempting to flash you and failing can be reataliated to slightly (see disarm / light beatup, or call sec), but not to the degree of absorbing and spacing.

 

For hiding and maints and flashing people, on code green this would be allowed, but security is going to arrest you. On code blue or red, a non antagonist should not be randomly flashing people in maints and distracting security.

 

If you have any further questions or want to discuss these points, please ask. Sorry for the delay on this

[Qwertytoforty]

no reply in almost 2 months, moving to resolved