Remove ERT.

[Mark9013100]

 

1. They never improve the situation for which they've been called, infact, they usually end up doing more damage.

2. The crew always calls the shuttle before/after the ERT shows up.

3. I've never seen an ERT outside of nuclear emergency/xenos(which they're never needed for because aliens got nerfed way too hard).

4. I've never seen a non-security ERT except when an admin forced one.

Inshort, ERTs are just shitcurity with all access.

 

[flimflamm]

 

While I have never played as an ERT (too busy having a life ) I have generally found them to not be very useful outside of the medical types who save the day at medbay.

 

They take forever to gear up, or so i reckon, because they seem to spend about the same amount of time getting ready as a teenage human female on prom night...

 

Maybe just remove the whole security aspect of it and have it be an 'EMT' emergency medical team.

 

I recently suggested that science be given their own guard with a post, maybe a karma role, maybe just a random sec office, and other people echoed their desire for more security guard posts in various departments, similar to what med-bay has. If the ERT are to be removed, then perhaps this slight buff of security could compensate for the loss...

 

[Fj45]

 

I have played ERT many times myself.

 

While I agree that there are many problems with ERT units, removing them entirely is not a solution and robs the station of a vital asset.

 

While the response time could be greater reduced with better gear layouts and a few other things, it has become far better recently as Centcom was trimmed down.

 

The general derpiness of ERT units is not an easy thing to solve. When everyone in the squad is good though ERT units can easily change how the entire round plays out.

 

 

 

About two days ago I had a nukie round and I ended up joining as the ERT. The nukies were pretty slow and had easily been seen early, plus the Captain was on the ball so he called the ERT in and then did the sax.

After arriving the squad headed for research, where the Cap was holding out. Me and another grunt armed with SAWs assulted two nukies holding out in the Caps office and managed to kill them both. Meanwhile the rest of the squad got into research, found the Cap and killed the rest of the nukies.

 

Security had held the syndies off for a while but had mostly taken fire and gone down. We were the only thing left to protect the Captain.

 

I do not know exactly how to fix them but removing them outright is not a good idea.

 

[FarmWizard]

Maybe it's a karma unlock?

[Mark9013100]

Karma unlocks do nothing, if some cossack from serbia can buy NT Rep and machine people, they can certainly buy ERT and fuck up someone's day. But as I pointed out, ERTs are only useful in nuclear now, and with the removal of the CC holding cells, it limits their capacity in other modes, like rev.

[Fruerlund]

 

1. They never improve the situation for which they've been called, infact, they usually end up doing more damage.

2. The crew always calls the shuttle before/after the ERT shows up.

3. I've never seen an ERT outside of nuclear emergency/xenos(which they're never needed for because aliens got nerfed way too hard).

4. I've never seen a non-security ERT except when an admin forced one.

Inshort, ERTs are just shitcurity with all access.

 

1.) Not true, I've seen just as many bad ERT's as good ERT's. e.g. ERT was called and killed/captured a wizard and a ninja, while causing minimal damage to station.

 

Called a CDC-ERT For virus outbreak, went very well. Called Janitorial ERT (ERT showed up armed to the teeth, and started taking command and caused death of a head.)

 

2.) Agreed, this annoys me the most. Either you call ERT or Shuttle not both. Maybe some sort of ingame mechanic that disables shuttlecall for x-time. If you call ERT.

 

3.) Not true. As Captain I attempt to call ERT for other crisis too, such as above mentioned.

 

4.) Not true again, however yes. Sometimes "harmfull" players given weapons(ERT) usually end up bad.

 

In general I see a higher amount of good ERT, than bad.

 

Me and another grunt armed with SAWs assulted two nukies holding out in the Caps office and managed to kill them both. Meanwhile the rest of the squad got into research, found the Cap and killed the rest of the nukies.

 

That was me with the SAW. Piece of cake. Plus we killed three. ^^

 

[Fj45]

Didn't realize there were three in the Caps office! It was perfect with both of us covering all exits, even with one of us down the other would have got them. I have a feeling one of their implants triggered, killing the rest and setting off their implants as well.

[dreadweaver]

 

The problem here is not the mechanic, it's the players. I have noticed this mentality before here on paradise - removing an entire aspect of the game (being able to respawn as slimes/spiders/carps/etc.) instead of dealing with the people abusing it.

 

Anyways, my suggestion would be that ERT should be only able to played by whitelisted players - of course you have to create one first.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Maybe it's a karma unlock?

Making it a karma thing won't change anything, just because you earned it doesn't mean you're responsible enough to play it. Take slimepeople for instance. A lot of them just take the ability just so they can vent crawl.

However, I don't think removing ERT will do much good. It brings players back into the round, a good ERT can assist with any situation, and it can create some interesting RP situations.

 

[MarkvA]

 

I agree that removing the Emergency Response Team isn't the right solution to fixing the issues the team currently has. Rather than removing it, we should find ways to fix the team, as stated previously.

 

1. They never improve the situation for which they've been called, infact, they usually end up doing more damage.

I disagree. Yesterday we had a revolutionary round which, well, went quite out of hand. We called the ERT to deal with the situation, and they nicely rounded up the revolutionaries and brought them to permabrig. There's been at least two times where the ERT team has cured a deadly virus too, so there's plenty of good they can do. The ERT CentCom base and shuttle should probably be modified to include the holding cells, and preferably a large set of loyalty implants though. That way the ERT can actually use non-lethals in security situations that aren't nukeops.

2. The crew always calls the shuttle before/after the ERT shows up.

When ERT shows up, because of the nature of the Emergency Response Team, things tend to be FUBAR, so naturally the shuttle is called. The ERT should request the Captain to recall the shuttle instead.

3. I've never seen an ERT outside of nuclear emergency/xenos(which they're never needed for because aliens got nerfed way too hard).

They're indeed not needed during Xenos. But during NukeOps they can be extremely useful (if the heads manage to call them in before dying), and I've called one together with the captain during a rev round too.

4. I've never seen a non-security ERT except when an admin forced one.

Well, I've seen at least two medical teams, and one semi-engineering and one semi-medical team. Sure, most of the times they're needed is during security situations, but not always.

 

So yes, let's look for solutions rather than removing them. Remap the CentCom starting area and ERT shuttle to include holding cells and loyalty implants, and perhaps give heads the option to choose the type of ERT team they need.

 

[Mark9013100]

 

1. They never improve the situation for which they've been called, infact, they usually end up doing more damage.

2. The crew always calls the shuttle before/after the ERT shows up.

3. I've never seen an ERT outside of nuclear emergency/xenos(which they're never needed for because aliens got nerfed way too hard).

4. I've never seen a non-security ERT except when an admin forced one.

Inshort, ERTs are just shitcurity with all access.

 

1.) Not true, I've seen just as many bad ERT's as good ERT's. e.g. ERT was called and killed/captured a wizard and a ninja, while causing minimal damage to station.

 

Do not use this round as an example, all I saw was two trigger-happy ERTs.

 

2.) Agreed, this annoys me the most. Either you call ERT or Shuttle not both. Maybe some sort of ingame mechanic that disables shuttlecall for x-time. If you call ERT.

 

3.) Not true. As Captain I attempt to call ERT for other crisis too, such as above mentioned.

 

That still doesn't balance out the amount of Heads that call the shuttle over ERT.

 

4.) Not true again, however yes. Sometimes "harmful" players given weapons(ERT) usually end up bad.

 

In general I see a higher amount of good ERT, than bad.

 

During a ling round, an ERT officer decapitated two people who looked the same.

 

Me and another grunt armed with SAWs assulted two nukies holding out in the Caps office and managed to kill them both. Meanwhile the rest of the squad got into research, found the Cap and killed the rest of the nukies.

 

That was me with the SAW. Piece of cake. Plus we killed three. ^^

Like I said, they're only useful in nuclear now.

 

[Fruerlund]

 

ERT is shit snip.

 

 

1.)

Do not use this round as an example, all I saw was two trigger-happy ERTs.

 

Yes, the ERT arrived on the station, and did what they were called to do, neutralize the threats to the station. I'll mention some other examples. And I was actually the leader for this one. I had ordered my team to capure the wizard, however as we were about to depart, a Centcom Official arrived(admin character) and I asked them if they wanted them caputred or dead, in which they replied dead.

 

(Two already mentioned)

* CDC ERT cured a virus(seen this one multiable times).

* Janitorial ERT(Simply dirty station).

* Medbay ERT(lack of doctors)

* Engineering ERT(explosions from traitors).

* Command ERT(Failure to control station. Head disputes).

list goes on.

 

2.) / 3.)

Agreed, it happends and it doesn't happend. Only way to sort it is as I said, game mechanic or simply "order" them to recall the shuttle as ERT technically take command!

 

[Mark9013100]

 

2.) / 3.)

Agreed, it happends and it doesn't happend. Only way to sort it is as I said, game mechanic or simply "order" them to recall the shuttle as ERT technically take command!

 

And this is part of the problem, sometimes ERT takes total control even if they don't need too, and then follow up by not cooperating/communicating with the crew.

 

[Mark9013100]

 

I agree that removing the Emergency Response Team isn't the right solution to fixing the issues the team currently has. Rather than removing it, we should find ways to fix the team, as stated previously.

 

Well removing shit is the way Fox sees as the method for dealing with problems.

 

ther than removing them. Remap the CentCom starting area and ERT shuttle to include holding cells and loyalty implants, and perhaps give heads the option to choose the type of ERT team they need.

 

Loyalty implants don't do a damn thing, dumbasses will be dumbasses, placebo implant or not.

 

[Regen]

 

I have a suggestion for all of this, it might not be liked by everyone because it restricts a lot for ERT, but it can help with the metagaming "I am a security officer with all access above captain harr darr" that we see from time to time.

 

What if we had a predefined set of equipment for the different roles of ERT?

Is a medical ERT needed? Well then you start will all items needed to fill that role as ERT, nothing else.

Is an Engineering ERT needed? Well then you start with the required items to fix the station and nothing else.

So how is it decided what the station needs? Well we can have multiple options on the keycard authentication device.

 

 

This will also significantly reduce the time it takes for ERT to arrive, because you literally spawn with all the gear you need and all you have to do is walk to the shuttle, hell we can even make the spawn in the shuttle, all it needs it to be started.

I believe this would help our current situation with ERT other than a lack of players wanting to play ERT.

 

[Fruerlund]

 

I have a suggestion for all of this, it might not be liked by everyone because it restricts a lot for ERT, but it can help with the metagaming "I am a security officer with all access above captain harr darr" that we see from time to time.

 

What if we had a predefined set of equipment for the different roles of ERT?

Is a medical ERT needed? Well then you start will all items needed to fill that role as ERT, nothing else.

Is an Engineering ERT needed? Well then you start with the required items to fix the station and nothing else.

So how is it decided what the station needs? Well we can have multiple options on the keycard authentication device.

 

 

This will also significantly reduce the time it takes for ERT to arrive, because you literally spawn with all the gear you need and all you have to do is walk to the shuttle, hell we can even make the spawn in the shuttle, all it needs it to be started.

I believe this would help our current situation with ERT other than a lack of players wanting to play ERT.

 

Very good idea. I believe this sorts most of the issues stated in this thread. Call for a Medical ERT; and you won't have to worry about a War-ERT showing up!

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I would suggest a slightly different approach.

 

Give the Keycard device certain options to check, for example:

- Security

- Engineering

- Medical

- Janitorial

- Combat

 

Every option that is checked unlocks a different room inside CentCom and this that other items fitting the choosen roles. So you can switch different roles between ERT members and take the gear you need. Especially for some Engineering ERT you should contact the station first to know what you should bring with you.

 

Make the airlocks like the gamma airlock unhackable and the walls should be unbreakable anyways. This way the person activating the Keycard call can choose what kind equipment he wants the ERT to have. If they choose "Security" then the ERT has access to normal Security Guard gear (taser, cuffs and shit). Maybe the ERT leader spawns with one energy gun by default (just like a HoS would) and the rest will have to pick up tasers. So they could be controlled by Station Security unless they recieve "Combat" access which allows them access to all the lethal weapons (for nukies, xenos or whatever).

 

Also, i think ERT-Member should get a message that puts them under the command of the stations Captain if the ERT has been called by the station. If the ERT has been called by CentCom, as an admin event, then and only then should they have authority over the station. The station wide ERT announcement should reflect what authority the incomming ERT will have.

 

I would also add a screen like: "You have been choosen as an ERT-Member, your assignment is .... (Security, Engineering, Medical janitorial and/ or Combat), the station captain has full authority over you, do you want to accept?" This gives the people a option to back out and not be in a Engineering only ERT if they just want to light stuff on fire. Because there is no use to force player into roles that they don't want to play. They will either start trouble or go SSD.

 

Edit:

Maybe give the Keycard device a small textbox to insert a writting assignment for the ERT. Most of the time ERTs don't get a propper explanation why they are called and arrive in some chaos, which could also lead to shitcurity behaviour.

 

[Fj45]

That does like a very good idea. But please, make it so a single head can call an ERT unit.

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I am torn about one single person, that would give a head of staff a way to go over the captains head. Maybe make a exception so that the captain can call without a second head required.

 

I think if a single head wants to call the ERT against everyone else, he should have to make a very good argument and call a ERT via the fax machine. Which would make the ERT actually called by centcom (admins) and give them more authroity, at least if we go with my suggestion that a ERT called by the station is allways under the captains command. (or acting captain for that matter)

 

[Fj45]

Good point, how about allowing all heads to use the bridge emergency message system then?

[SpaceTimeNow]

I don't play head roles very much, what can the emergency message system do? Issn't the communication with Centcom via fax machines?

[Fj45]

Effectively an emergency message system with the bridge computer. The main problem with having it Captain access only is that NOBODY knows about it!

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Effectively an emergency message system with the bridge computer. The main problem with having it Captain access only is that NOBODY knows about it!

 

I like that, if the captain is smart enough to understand that one of the heads is trying to undermine him, he could stay close to the computer or have it watched.

 

[Wintermote]

 

Remove calling the shuttle within the first ~hour and have the ERT sent in first instead.

After 15-20 minutes of the ERT on the station, allow the emergency shuttle to be called.

 

Make it a system of progression. You can't call the emergency shuttle immediately, you need to call the ERT first to solve the problem and if they can't solve it, THEN the station can be evacuated.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Remove calling the shuttle within the first ~hour and have the ERT sent in first instead.

After 15-20 minutes of the ERT on the station, allow the emergency shuttle to be called.

 

Make it a system of progression. You can't call the emergency shuttle immediately, you need to call the ERT first to solve the problem and if they can't solve it, THEN the station can be evacuated.

Yes, but also no. What happens if the singularity is loose, or the station is totally overrun by xenos. I think there should be situations where you should just be able to peace out.