Trial Admin complaint against Komrad822

[Kimi]

Admin key: Komrad822
User CK: KagamiYamegata
Discord username: idem
Date: August 4, 2024 11:58 AM GMT+9
Round ID: 41320

misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers

About 1:30:00 (approx) into the round, a group of security officers entered medbay maints to chase a fully powered vamp.
I and other present players playing as doctors followed after the HoS requested help killing it, the following events included
me using automenders on the security agents fighting the vampire, me shoving the vampire to keep it at a distance, me applying a chokehold to assist with cuffing after I got attacked, and later helping beating it to a pulp when it was critted to kill it faster
to Which admin Komrad822 inquired with questioning why I used a fire extinguisher on the vamp and after standing corrected that wasn't me but another doctor then proceeded to go on what I cannot describe as anything other than a rant of dominance asserting snarky rhetorical inquiring of the "well? are you a sec officer?" type and accusations of "validhunting". The exchanged ultimately end in my ban under the simple premise of “not understanding what I did wrong" when the only wrongdoing was a gross oversimplification of the events and an unreasonably abusive usage of their powers despite the lack of any real rule infringement grounds or other excuse whatsoever.

Edited: Title and formatting 

 

Edited August 14 by Kimi

[DoctorDrugs]

Normally I would apologize for taking a while to get to this AC but it has not escaped the staff in general how you've been complaining on the discord regarding how it should be an easily handled complaint and shouldn't take long. Staff in general give up their free time in order to help keep things running the same being for every single person who's been involved with development and administration, we have real lives outside of the server and that usually gets priority over a video game. While it might take some time to get to everything due to that progress is still made towards to handling everything as soon as possible.

Now in terms of the complaint, I will tackle this in two parts. The first part being their enforcement of rules and your claims of misapplication of them, abuse of powers, etc. From what I see in logs and can assume reliably you followed security into maints to not only disarmed and put the antag into a headlock/aggressive grab but punched the antag nine times whilst security were already batoning them. It is security's job to deal with antags directly and as such you shouldn't have been involved in attacking the antag or even attempting to help security deal with them. Komrad's intentions and reasons for talking to you in the first place were not unfounded and fell under the rules of antag hunting and he enforced them as such.

The second part I will address the conduct in PMs, Skipping the one or two PMs about the fire extinguisher part:
 

Quote

ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">Even so, whyd you beat the vampire while sec was there?</font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): because they literally asked for help killing it
ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">but are you sec?</font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): so much for rethorical 
ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">well, are you?</font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): im not gonna entertain passive aggressive rethorics. what&#39;s the point of all this it&#39;s literally not this big of a deal
ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">it is thought, we have rules against valid hunting. You had no reason to beat the antag when penty of sec were there. You even have a medhud to see. You could heal sec but they hadnt attacked you. You even had them in a choking grip earlier when sec was there, why?</font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): I literally did use menders to heal sec, and the choking grip was a measure of self defense. It&#39;s a kill on sight target and literally everyone helps if it isn&#39;t a serious threat when it happens it&#39;s not  &#34;valid hunting&#34;
ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">KoS targets are only KoS for sec, not non-sec.Chasing a vampire into maints and beating them down is not your job. I suggest reading our rules on this subject</font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): and i suggest the part where HoS literally asked for help killing it
ADMIN: PM: Komrad822/(x)->KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata): <font face="Verdana">It seems you refuse to understand what you did wrong in this case. </font>
ADMIN: PM: KagamiYamegata/(Kagami Yamegata)->Komrad822/(x): no what i don&#39;t think i understand is how from something this quaint you&#39;ve made so much of a deal, my stay there was 90% healing med and shoving to prevent the vamp from getting to me

In short Komrad's handling of this in PMs falls short of what I expect from admins in their approach to dealing with issues, while this sort of approach was acceptable in the past paradise has been moving further away from the confrontational-like tone in Admin PMs over the years. However saying that, your PMs in response to him were what I'd call confrontational and leaned towards hostile. The only fault I find here is how Komrad's PMs started out confrontational and I will be addressing that by talking to them regarding that, otherwise the complaint regarding misapplication of rules, abuse of powers, etc is without merit.

[Kimi]

Well all things considered it does seem to be I had the wrong impression on the rules regarding KOS antags. 
However, I have two lingering questions moving forward:
1- What is the actual procedure for KOS targets for non security staff in these situations? (can't find mentions in the wiki)
2- How will my ban be handled considering this admin complaint does put bad faith between me and the handling admin?
Also, a word for making demands regarding the delay of this whole process, I do realize it was inconsiderate and do apologize.

[DoctorDrugs]

1. There's Valid antags as listed in the rules for which are considered fine for any crew member to kill like wizard or blob as they are a major threat to the station and the crew entirity and security's KoS antags which are antags deemed KoS due to their antag role once discovered or the large threat they pose which is only pertaining to security. Self defense rules are relevant for what non-security are allowed to do in response to being attacked by antags not covered under the rules valid antags.

2. Your ban is proper ban if you want it lifted you will have to make an unban request that either the banning admin will handle or another admin if the banning admin is unable to handle it do to IRL or other reasons.

[Kimi]

Thank you for your time